Naval genies in a bottle

Cthia, you seem to be assuming that all members of a given line are identical, but that is not true. Different Alphas have different genetic improvements; same for Betas and Gammas. Many of them specialize in particular ways. Thus, there would be no S-line; rather, if they wanted to develop a genetic military genius (and if it were possible), it would merely be a specialization of an Alpha, or a Beta, or a Gamma line. We don't know that they haven't tried exactly that, since don't know all the specializations in those three lines.

Now, I doubt that military genius is that easy to reproduce genetically, and I doubt that they have had much real success at it, if they have tried it. (Whether they believe they have had success may be a separate question. )

cthia wrote:

Which brings me to a final point. With RFC announcing that there will be only two more mainline Honorverse novels featuring Honor as the main character, why can't Honor resume her teaching position? It seems she is just as valuable there. Then perhaps she can teach those close-in maneuvers in which she employed on at least two occasions and survived where survival wasn't expected.

Was this an official announcement?

Amaroq wrote:Was this an official announcement?

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2 ... _tales_of/

Relevant portion:

[–]Terminatorguy 1 point 1 day ago
Is there more books coming that is part of the Honor Harrington series of the Honorverse?
permalink

[–]EvergreenStudios[S] 3 points 1 day ago
This is David. There are additional books coming. Exactly how many I don't know at this point. I suspect by "Honor Harrington series" are the books which center on Honor herself. If that's correct, I know there will be at least one and probably two more of those. There will also be at least some other books which center on other characters who have been brought front and center of late -- like Mike Henke, Aivars Terekov, Helen Zilwicki, Abigail Hearns, etc. How they'll break down in numbers and content is more than I could tell you at this point. Hope that helps!

Thanks, MaxxQ! I assume that the other Honorverse books he mentions that won't have Honor as a main character will be more like the Cachat/Zilwicki and Talbott quadrant books? Still telling the same storylines but focusing more on the secondary characters?

Amaroq wrote:Thanks, MaxxQ! I assume that the other Honorverse books he mentions that won't have Honor as a main character will be more like the Cachat/Zilwicki and Talbott quadrant books? Still telling the same storylines but focusing more on the secondary characters?

That's pretty much how I understand what he said. I'd still consider them "mainline" books, even if they don't center on Honor. Aside from the Travis books (with Zahn and Tom Pope), I doubt he's going to do much more in the "side-series" aspect of the whole thing as he did with the Torch books (w/Eric) and the Shadow books. After all, with ART, he brought the Shadow side-series back into the mainline.

I'm okay with this. Honor's getting way too high in rank to be haring off to who-knows-where to go on death rides. Also, she's too valuable as an advisor for Empress Elizabeth to take a chance on losing her. As others here have mentioned, I can see her replacing Caparelli (poor guy's been conducting a war for 20 or so years with only a 4-5 year "vacation" during the High Ridge years), then maybe becoming some sort of ambassador or go-between, like when she went to Haven.

After those one or two Honor-centric books David mentioned, I see her only showing up in cameos for the rest of the series. As much as I love her character, it's time she stepped down as the focus of the series. I see her in the next book(s) she appears in as taking care of the Sollie issues, then popping in occasionally while Mike and everyone else take care of the MAlign.

Eagleeye wrote:Maybe Mesa tried that out once but the results were ... less than encouraging let's say, because you can't get some positives without getting some negatives, too?

And maybe, in this case, the negative in question would be a ... certain lack in loyalty to the goals of their creators?

I am with this 100%. Dear Albrecht would have a tendency to have Stalin's fear of really good military officers. Tactics... strategy... seeing through his insanity...

Amaroq wrote:Thanks, MaxxQ! I assume that the other Honorverse books he mentions that won't have Honor as a main character will be more like the Cachat/Zilwicki and Talbott quadrant books? Still telling the same storylines but focusing more on the secondary characters?

I could see her, once the Sollie mess is dealt with, switching to her roles as Steadholder and Duchess and hopefully teaching at Saganami.... or, better, founding a Grayson Naval Academy... she could do that and be Steadholder Harrington seeing to the prospering of her Steading plus Blackbird, Skydomes etc etc. This would get Raul on Grayson as well. I'd like it if Katherine was able to inherit the White Haven Earldom rather than all of it going to Raul. Surely that could be worked out.

May HH be allowed to live out a peacefully happy and very long life. She's darn well earned it. A wonderful HEA for Honor. Yes.

Northstar wrote:

Amaroq wrote:Thanks, MaxxQ! I assume that the other Honorverse books he mentions that won't have Honor as a main character will be more like the Cachat/Zilwicki and Talbott quadrant books? Still telling the same storylines but focusing more on the secondary characters?

I could see her, once the Sollie mess is dealt with, switching to her roles as Steadholder and Duchess and hopefully teaching at Saganami.... or, better, founding a Grayson Naval Academy... she could do that and be Steadholder Harrington seeing to the prospering of her Steading plus Blackbird, Skydomes etc etc. This would get Raul on Grayson as well. I'd like it if Katherine was able to inherit the White Haven Earldom rather than all of it going to Raul. Surely that could be worked out.

May HH be allowed to live out a peacefully happy and very long life. She's darn well earned it. A wonderful HEA for Honor. Yes.

I sort of doubt it, Northstar; re-read the section of Misison of Honor that ends:

"I'll miss them," she told him again, still with that dreadful softness, "but I won't forget. I'll never forget, and one day—one day, Hamish—we're going to find the people who did this, you and I. And when we do, the only thing I'll ask of God is that He let them live long enough to know who's killing them."

I rather think she means that....

So while I (like you) hope to see more of her in a less-combative role, she will still be there for the "Big ones" and come the climatic final battle (and you just know there's one out there), I expect we'll see Honor Harrington on the Command Deck making DAMN SURE they Know who is Killing Them!!

We shall see--eventually.

Considering David's plan of killing off Honor at First Manticore, much as Admiral Nelson's victory at Trafalgar, he's got the problem, David has noted that Honor is too valuable to go a Slamandering any more. All in all I see Honor as an important political character but, the spear carriers being other characters, like Mike, Tourville, etc.

That said I expect her guest appearances to be pithy, probably in understanding the politics of the stories as the war continues. Perhaps even a little more family life, she is a young mother after all.

Poker

It has been simmering in my mind for quite some time, but could not quite place a taste bud on the tasty tidbit. It seems that Mesa may have missed an opportunity. Why is there not a S-line, bred for Naval Strategy and Tactics?

Because their Alpha-lines and etc are too mentally inferior to realise that they´re not superior.

I´m amused that you label them as S-line.

And all are well trained in Old Earth's Top Gun tactics as a teether.

Top Gun wouldn´t be very relevant. Fighter combat and space naval battles, not much the same.

Mesan bred astrogator genies would be able to astrogate without computers, in a pinch.

Effectively, just about anyone CAN do that, but it´s probably going to be pretty damn slow. And, humans forget stuff. Forgetting the current location of an asteroid in the wrong time and place?

BAD.

Sun Tzu argued against attrition warfare..

Rightly so. It´s generally a waste of resources.

however, in the Honorverse, with genies being let out of the bottle, perhaps a new slant on this tactic may make it feasible. A sort of Mental Attrition Warfare. MAW.

If Mesa was going to let the genies out of the bottle, why not rub the bottle the right way?

If you want to be nasty, you massproduce both manpower and ships. Problem with using this for attrition is that you need to be the side taking less damage compared to production, and the RF/MAlign is a tiny fraction compared to the rest of the human population.

Which brings me to a final point. With RFC announcing that there will be only two more mainline Honorverse novels featuring Honor as the main character, why can't Honor resume her teaching position?

Probably busy as part of the high command. But if not, she most certainly should.

It seems she is just as valuable there.

Easily.

The SCrusher. The Salamander Crusher.

Crushing the Salamander, a little more every day.

My two cents anyway. With today's inflation, is it worth a plum nickel?

Probably not.

In all of an officer's training, and all of the class instruction and simulations driven into students, I can't imagine that these type maneuvers wouldn't be pre-requisites. It's akin to studying chess to become a grand master but ignoring the 'end game.'

No, it´s more like ignoring the art of winning in chess by attacking only with the king.
Doable, but under >99.99% conditions not sane or realistic.

It´s probably covered on one of the first pages of the introductory text book as part of things NOT to do unless you´re feeling like and extremely lucky punk.

My father was a proponent of 'If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.'

Hehe, and then there´s those of us that improvise them planners into experiencing a very annoying defeat.

(ok, planning IS generally a good thing, promise!)

The genius military leaders have already been bred--the Detweilers. The strategy thought up for centuries, and their initial tactical strikes were most successful.

That´s what they want to think of themselves.

Wether it´s intentional by RFC or not, i´m seeing flaws popping up.
If you have played Battletech and know the story with the clans, you probably know what i mean.
Those were also "genetically superior", not to mention mostly better trained, but their background also provides blind spots and deficiencies that are not obvious until it bites them in the ass.

Even if the storyline is huge on author and gameline fiat, there´s still plenty of thought behind it.

One very real and basic risk of "manufacturing the optimal" in genetics, is that as part of that, you also get stagnation.

Because random chance with enough chances, can be a damn lot more effective than intentional splicing.
(try fighting a wargame with a genetical AI after it´s been "perfectly programmed" and again after it has played a few thousand games, the difference is extreme)

Perfection all too often also means a lack of random, because there is often a few options that are "best". Hence, a "superior" leader will choose them more often than not, because that leader WILL see that they are the best options.
Which means a sneaky opponent can exploit that predictability.


Don´t forget, that the Detweilers are more or less clones, back to the original man.


Which of course brings up the question of what do the MA actually consider good and bad?
There are lots of genetical traits that have good AND bad sides.
As is commented on Honors own genie family, increased intelligence at the price of increased aggression. Among other things.


Try taking a look at the personalities of effective leaders in history, you can find anything from the casual tactical flair and self confidence of Rommel or Julius Caesar all the way to the energetic, neurotic Model.

The more you standardise on what is "perfect", the less variation you get...

I beg to differ. I think it took true genius to think it up. And so far in advance. The fact that the playing field wasn't level doesn't discount the genius.

Can't discount Stormin' Norman's genius just because he had superior advanced air support technology. In which he used ruthlessly.

*pfftt*

There is a difference between competence and genius.
NOT exploiting your advantages would be incompetence.