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New Anti-Missile tactic

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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by wastedfly   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:32 am

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Dafmeister wrote:
Rakhmamort wrote:
The problem with this wedge plate being up all the time is that the ship that has it, can't use it's broadside weaponry. It might be fine with Rolands and pod-based ships during long range duels since their main armaments are at the hammerhead/s.


Except that the 'wedge plate' also blocks the ship's sensors and its communications with its recon drones, neither of which can penetrate a wedge.


No, it wouldn't.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by Dafmeister   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:56 am

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wastedfly wrote:
No, it wouldn't.


Yes, it would. We've heard time and again that wedges block sensors - the 'gunsmoke' effect of launching a missile salvo, for example. Part of the benefit of the Keyhole platforms is that they allow you to roll your wedge toward your target and still keep the target in view, because the Keyhole's sensors can see past the edge of your wedge and it has a direct link through the open side of the wedge to your ship. There's also the description of the failure to 'clear the baffles' in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by munroburton   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:24 am

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wastedfly wrote:
Dafmeister wrote:Except that the 'wedge plate' also blocks the ship's sensors and its communications with its recon drones, neither of which can penetrate a wedge.


No, it wouldn't.


Directly, yes it would. That's why you string out a few more drones ahead or behind to act as relays.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by MAD-4A   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:41 am

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munroburton wrote:Directly, yes it would. That's why you string out a few more drones ahead or behind to act as relays.

That's basically what keyhole is - the ships turn their own wedge toward the enemy and use keyhole to "see" around it, with the missiles firing "off bore" (down or up). To hit a keyhole ship you have to fire around their wedge to begin with but a line of LACS along the sidewall could block incoming missiles from the intended target at the temporary expense of being unable to fire at the same time (but with salvos having to be metered out due to link limits you just time your shots so the incoming arrives during a link gap in outgoing fire - also with pod layers they fire pods from outside the wedge anyway). to use PDMs the same way would require more control than has been seen - they would have to accel out, turn 90deg then match accel with the target (ship protected) & do so in formation. If the ship made any maneuvers at all, the formation would be broken up. Current PDMs don't have that kind of control - bang they're out & on their way at full excel. The use in this way would require much more internal control, but the lower accel (once in formation) would allow for less power drain & allow for greater endurance though.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:33 am

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Dafmeister wrote:Yes, it would. We've heard time and again that wedges block sensors - the 'gunsmoke' effect of launching a missile salvo, for example. Part of the benefit of the Keyhole platforms is that they allow you to roll your wedge toward your target and still keep the target in view, because the Keyhole's sensors can see past the edge of your wedge and it has a direct link through the open side of the wedge to your ship. There's also the description of the failure to 'clear the baffles' in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington.
Well to be nitpicky, a ship can see (poorly) through it's own wedge. So rolling wedge degrades, but doesn't prevent, it's ability to track incoming fire or monitor what the opponent is doing.

But even it's own wedge does cut fire control links. So keyhole is give it a better view when rolled behind it's wedge and giving it back offensive and defensive fire control.


But yes, we've definitely been told that a missile (or drone) wedge creates a gunsmoke effect and blocks ship sensors and communication for seeing / working through it.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:34 pm

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And how long will the drive/wedge of a CM last pacing along side of its mothership vs when the incoming missile it is defending against reaches its engagement range?

It sounds like you would have to fire the CM and make it go parallel to the mothership just in time to whey you expect the incommng missile to detonate. Fairly close timing.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by SWM   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:13 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:And how long will the drive/wedge of a CM last pacing along side of its mothership vs when the incoming missile it is defending against reaches its engagement range?

It sounds like you would have to fire the CM and make it go parallel to the mothership just in time to whey you expect the incommng missile to detonate. Fairly close timing.

Why are you talking about countermissiles? Rakhmamort has already agreed to make it a drone, not a missile.

Which makes this exactly like the previous proposals for using wedges as shields.
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by wastedfly   » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:27 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:
wastedfly wrote:
No, it wouldn't.


Yes, it would. We've heard time and again that wedges block sensors - the 'gunsmoke' effect of launching a missile salvo, for example. Part of the benefit of the Keyhole platforms is that they allow you to roll your wedge toward your target and still keep the target in view, because the Keyhole's sensors can see past the edge of your wedge and it has a direct link through the open side of the wedge to your ship. There's also the description of the failure to 'clear the baffles' in Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington.


Since you have chosen NOT TO READ or THINK:

Things with wedges can do this thing called ROTATE! When rotated perpendicular to ships orientation, yes it will block. Then it, GASP :shock: :shock: :shock: , rotates, 90 degrees! It does not block anymore! Like; No way Dude! Way cool. :idea: :idea: :idea:

Another WAY cool feature of a drone is that it has, get this, DUDE, variable acceleration! :shock: :shock: :shock: So, if you wanted a VERY clear broadside picture, you have said drone move Forward a few km. Like no way man! Seriously? Drones can move independently? :roll: :roll: :roll: Way cool. That is da' Shit man!

Shit man, said Drone can accelerate at what again? 10KPS. Shit, you mean it takes a whopping second to clear even if you didn't allow it to rotate at all? Like, Hell man! That is way too long... 1 whole second. Damn!
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by Michael Everett   » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:38 am

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Regarding using a missile's wedge to block an attack, didn't Travis Long do something very similar once?
Of course, it only worked because by modern standards, the missiles of the time were geriatric turtles...
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Re: New Anti-Missile tactic
Post by Dafmeister   » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:39 am

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[quote="wastedfly"

Since you have chosen NOT TO READ or THINK:

Things with wedges can do this thing called ROTATE! When rotated perpendicular to ships orientation, yes it will block. Then it, GASP :shock: :shock: :shock: , rotates, 90 degrees! It does not block anymore! Like; No way Dude! Way cool. :idea: :idea: :idea:

Another WAY cool feature of a drone is that it has, get this, DUDE, variable acceleration! :shock: :shock: :shock: So, if you wanted a VERY clear broadside picture, you have said drone move Forward a few km. Like no way man! Seriously? Drones can move independently? :roll: :roll: :roll: Way cool. That is da' Shit man!

Shit man, said Drone can accelerate at what again? 10KPS. Shit, you mean it takes a whopping second to clear even if you didn't allow it to rotate at all? Like, Hell man! That is way too long... 1 whole second. Damn![/quote]

First of all, stow the insults.

Second, I understand what you were saying perfectly well. My point is that using this kind of'shield leaves you blind and deaf while it's up. You don't know what's happening in the battle. You can't send updates to your own missiles, a lot of which you'll never regain proper control of. You can't run a plot on the wave of enemy missiles coming in after the one you're shielding yourself against. Nor can you run a plot on any missiles in the first salvo which are going to get around the front or back of your shield and fire down the throat or kilt of your wedge, which you can't close with this kind of shield unless you kill your acceleration completely, because if the shield drones' wedges are angled to form the shield then they can't be accelerating along your vector with you. And finally, you've no way to know when the last missile of the salvo you're shielding against has gone short of running a stopwatch and deciding when you think it's been long enough for none of them to be left.
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