System Guard

Jonathan_S wrote:It's the missile used on the Saganami-B-class of heavy cruisers. (Like the Jessica Epps from War of Honor)

And its Erewhonese cousin the Mark 17 is used on the Marksman class 'light cruiser' (actually essentially a Star Knight + Grayson-level automation + switching to ERMs for the main missile).

In Silesia a few of the systems had building slips capable of building small BC up to 600,000 tons. One might suggest retooling and start building Saganami C CA's. 3-6 systems with build capability of 3 to 6 slips each.

9-18-36. Slips. A year for retooling and two more to bring 18-36-72 Saganami C out of those slips. While building additional larger BC P-L slips. I suppose the System Guard could be fitted with Mk16 CA and BC(P) / Nike BCL. 1 Nike, 3 Agamemnon, and 8 Saganami C would tighten up the Entire Silesian Sector. Take about a decade but it would allow additional units to start deploying all around the rest of the SEM.

Export FF (P) and FF (C) - "Q"ships armed with Cataphract pods and some form of Highlander 3 LAC. Like the Trojan but without the energy weapons or Active defenses / Telemetry ...

Lord Skimper wrote:9-18-36. Slips. A year for retooling and two more to bring 18-36-72 Saganami C out of those slips. While building additional larger BC P-L slips. I suppose the System Guard could be fitted with Mk16 CA and BC(P) / Nike BCL. 1 Nike, 3 Agamemnon, and 8 Saganami C would tighten up the Entire Silesian Sector. Take about a decade but it would allow additional units to start deploying all around the rest of the SEM.

You're quite frankly delusional if you think that Silesian yards (which we don't even know exist at this point!) can be retooled to build RMN-standard designs in a year. These yards, if they exist, were built to service and construct silesian designs at very low rates (like current naval yards, which take years to build something as comparatively small as a modern Destroyer or Frigate); retooling them for high-volume production and expanding their crews takes more than a single year.

And then you still haven't answered the question why this is necessary. If you wish to stimulate growth, great, but there have to be better ways of doing so, ones that are more immediately benefitial to large parts of those system's economy. By the time you can get the benefits from these programs, the big shipyards at Grayson and Manticore will be back online, at which point the need for supplemental construction sites is drastically reduced (from about zero to actual zero).

Supporting military growth only makes sense if there is an actual threat that needs to be addressed. There isn't one now, and there doesn't seem to be one on the horizon in ten year's time that can't be addressed out of existing ressources (or ressources that are planned to be in existance). By saddling these systems with a bunch of combat ships, you are draining their economies for no good reason.

Export FF (P) and FF (C) - "Q"ships armed with Cataphract pods and some form of Highlander 3 LAC. Like the Trojan but without the energy weapons or Active defenses / Telemetry ...

How many times do you have to be told that Q-Ships and Cataphracts in Manty service aren't going to happen before you realize it?

On another note, if you want to export downgraded weapon systems, why not just go for Moriarty systems? Haven still has a lot of production lines that are already tooled to produce all of the hardware.

The E wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:9-18-36. Slips. A year for retooling and two more to bring 18-36-72 Saganami C out of those slips. While building additional larger BC P-L slips. I suppose the System Guard could be fitted with Mk16 CA and BC(P) / Nike BCL. 1 Nike, 3 Agamemnon, and 8 Saganami C would tighten up the Entire Silesian Sector. Take about a decade but it would allow additional units to start deploying all around the rest of the SEM.

You're quite frankly delusional if you think that Silesian yards (which we don't even know exist at this point!) can be retooled to build RMN-standard designs in a year. These yards, if they exist, were built to service and construct silesian designs at very low rates (like current naval yards, which take years to build something as comparatively small as a modern Destroyer or Frigate); retooling them for high-volume production and expanding their crews takes more than a single year.

And then you still haven't answered the question why this is necessary. If you wish to stimulate growth, great, but there have to be better ways of doing so, ones that are more immediately benefitial to large parts of those system's economy. By the time you can get the benefits from these programs, the big shipyards at Grayson and Manticore will be back online, at which point the need for supplemental construction sites is drastically reduced (from about zero to actual zero).

Supporting military growth only makes sense if there is an actual threat that needs to be addressed. There isn't one now, and there doesn't seem to be one on the horizon in ten year's time that can't be addressed out of existing ressources (or ressources that are planned to be in existance). By saddling these systems with a bunch of combat ships, you are draining their economies for no good reason.

Export FF (P) and FF (C) - "Q"ships armed with Cataphract pods and some form of Highlander 3 LAC. Like the Trojan but without the energy weapons or Active defenses / Telemetry ...

How many times do you have to be told that Q-Ships and Cataphracts in Manty service aren't going to happen before you realize it?

I'm sorry but did he really just type "FF(P)"??? He did. I don't believe it. No I do believe it. The amount of idiocy in those three letters is insane. A POD FRIGATE??? A BC(p) can only drop 4 pods at a time. There is NO WAY that a FF could fit ONE past the impeller ring.

My head hurts.

Lord Skimper wrote:In Silesia a few of the systems had building slips capable of building small BC up to 600,000 tons. One might suggest retooling and start building Saganami C CA's. 3-6 systems with build capability of 3 to 6 slips each.

9-18-36. Slips. A year for retooling and two more to bring 18-36-72 Saganami C out of those slips. While building additional larger BC P-L slips. I suppose the System Guard could be fitted with Mk16 CA and BC(P) / Nike BCL. 1 Nike, 3 Agamemnon, and 8 Saganami C would tighten up the Entire Silesian Sector. Take about a decade but it would allow additional units to start deploying all around the rest of the SEM.

Export FF (P) and FF (C) - "Q"ships armed with Cataphract pods and some form of Highlander 3 LAC. Like the Trojan but without the energy weapons or Active defenses / Telemetry ...

While they have the size to build the ships, they don't have the technology needed to build them. Silensian military designs are almost 50-100 years behind Manticoran. Most of their CAs have smaller and fewer lasers than Manty DDs from 1900, with poorer ECM and sensors to boot. Building a ship isn't just building a hull, it's building all the components- and Manty components are as high-tech as they come. As has been mentioned elsewhere, Hundreds of companies would need to be upgraded to Manty levels just to build 1 of the current Manty designs - laudable and desireable in the longrun, but not feasable in a short time span. Manticore's lines will be working before any modern Manty warship could be built from scratch in Silensia.

Skimper, do we have to explain like you are fucking five years old?

Only 60 superdreadnoughts surrendered undamaged. 296 were destroyed, and 71 were heavily damaged - and consequently suffered destroyed missile magazines. There are no Cataphract pods remaining - all of them were fired. Any Cataphracts from internal magazines of the surviving ships are going to be partially depleted from the ensuing engagement up until they surrendered.

There is absolutely no conceivable way you are going to have enough missiles to be arming your system guard with Cataphracts. None whatsoever. So do kindly shut the fuck up about them.

crewdude48 wrote:I'm sorry but did he really just type "FF(P)"??? He did. I don't believe it. No I do believe it. The amount of idiocy in those three letters is insane. A POD FRIGATE??? A BC(p) can only drop 4 pods at a time. There is NO WAY that a FF could fit ONE past the impeller ring.

My head hurts.

Not frigate... fast freighter.

Either way, it's just as idiotic an idea as anything else he's come up with. Again, solutions in search of problems.

Potato wrote:Skimper, do we have to explain like you are fucking five years old?

Only 60 superdreadnoughts surrendered undamaged. 296 were destroyed, and 71 were heavily damaged - and consequently suffered destroyed missile magazines. There are no Cataphract pods remaining - all of them were fired. Any Cataphracts from internal magazines of the surviving ships are going to be partially depleted from the ensuing engagement up until they surrendered.

There is absolutely no conceivable way you are going to have enough missiles to be arming your system guard with Cataphracts. None whatsoever. So do kindly shut the fuck up about them.

Good thing you read about as well as you type.

60 undamaged 71 fixable if you wanted to fix them. Plus 20-40 Fast freighters full of reloads for 450 SD. I wonder how many missiles that is.

The pods are gone, unless the Fast Freighters were carrying pods as well.

One can always make pods. Don't even need slips to make pods.

As for the Silesian slips. A year to retool should be enough time. The Manty home system has no slips but it has the parts manufacturing systems. The basics and some of the advanced not on the stations stuff. That is still there.

Manticore can use some of the 1000's of idle freighters to move this stuff to Silesia.

A Silesian CAL could also be made. A small Nike / Large Sag C. 600,000 tons of 25 Mk16 per broadside. Further command facilities and less munition storage no keyhole but more capable command option than the Saganami C. It would take time. No arguments. But 5 years from now Manties new builds will be rolling off the new slips. Silesia will be able to help crew these new ships or replace Sarnows current crew as they move into these new ships. Taking over their Wolfhounds, Roland, Avalon and Saganami C. Every single Wolfhound and Roland crew member wouldn't be enough to fill 5 new SD(P). Add all the Avalon and Saganami A, B and C and you fill 35 more SD(P) crew slots. Build 200 SD(P) and you are going to rejoice that there are 400,000 trained Silesians ready to fill the junior spaces.
And yet your still not going to have 1 SD(P) for every 2 League systems. Even with 500 Haven SD(P).

Heck you could have Silesia build Kammerling Class System control cruisers.

Besides failing to explain why you are so dead set on using crappy missiles, why should Silesia get special ships?
If any of those planets get to be full members of the Star empire, their citizens will be able to enlist in the RMN, Marines and Army. Any second rank force strikes me as a political disaster on top of a military one.
Besides Manticore learned from Grendelsbane as well as from Alizon. All those yards ended up in a commitment of forces to defend them, and they got wrecked in the end. Centralized production is much more efficient, and barring any new undetectable drives they are safe.