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Battle of Spindle Aftermath

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Re: I Think It Was An Inside Job
Post by BobG   » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:36 pm

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HB of CJ wrote:My interpretation upon reading the book was that somebody on the flag bridge was quite upset that the august Admiral had screwed up so many times and so many way skipping along on the road to destruction that justice had to be served.

It almost tasted like the events that sometimes happened during the United States involvement in the Vietnam war where very bad officers were actually killed by their own troops, sometimes by a grenade tossed into the officer's tent.

Could there have been a very present underlining current of disrespect and outright anger expressed by the enlisted crew of that Admirals Sollie SD? Also, FWIW, a gun is never kept in the hand of the suicide person. It gets tossed.

HB of CJ (old coot)

The first question I have to ask is: did Crandall know enough for the MAlign to ensure his elimination? I think he could provide information on his contacts, and who had arraigned his fleet's coincidental movement near the Talbot Quadrant. It might even lead back to Rajampet. My conclusion is that he did, but I'll also observe that Rajampet wouldn't want him captured alive. Perhaps not from the attack on Spindle, but when the Manty battle fleet took him on. Still, I have to think that's a stretch.

I also think that most of the senior officers on the flag bridge were unlikely to shoot him in the back for screwing up that badly.
“all of whom seemed to be competing to see who could agree most vehemently with their admiral.”

Now his Frontier Fleet Intel Officer, Commander Shavarshyan, was not one of them, but he also seemed an unlikely candidate. Although, I can see where if BF personnel needed to blame someone, well, he is FF.

That leaves me with four likely possibilities: one of the enlisted on flag bridge shot him for getting all the people killed; nanotech assassination (which could be at Crandall's own hand or not);
Someone paid to kill him - mostly likely MAlign; or true suicide, although clearly the back of the head is difficult.

Which of the above? I think, like most people, that the MAlign was somehow responsible.

-- Bob G
SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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Re: I Think It Was An Inside Job
Post by kenl511   » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:45 pm

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robertamgottlieb wrote:
HB of CJ wrote:My interpretation upon reading the book was that somebody on the flag bridge was quite upset that the august Admiral had screwed up so many times and so many way skipping along on the road to destruction that justice had to be served.

It almost tasted like the events that sometimes happened during the United States involvement in the Vietnam war where very bad officers were actually killed by their own troops, sometimes by a grenade tossed into the officer's tent.

Could there have been a very present underlining current of disrespect and outright anger expressed by the enlisted crew of that Admirals Sollie SD? Also, FWIW, a gun is never kept in the hand of the suicide person. It gets tossed.

HB of CJ (old coot)

The first question I have to ask is: did Crandall know enough for the MAlign to ensure his elimination? I think he could provide information on his contacts, and who had arraigned his fleet's coincidental movement near the Talbot Quadrant. It might even lead back to Rajampet. My conclusion is that he did, but I'll also observe that Rajampet wouldn't want him captured alive. Perhaps not from the attack on Spindle, but when the Manty battle fleet took him on. Still, I have to think that's a stretch.

I also think that most of the senior officers on the flag bridge were unlikely to shoot him in the back for screwing up that badly.
“all of whom seemed to be competing to see who could agree most vehemently with their admiral.”

Now his Frontier Fleet Intel Officer, Commander Shavarshyan, was not one of them, but he also seemed an unlikely candidate. Although, I can see where if BF personnel needed to blame someone, well, he is FF.

That leaves me with four likely possibilities: one of the enlisted on flag bridge shot him for getting all the people killed; nanotech assassination (which could be at Crandall's own hand or not);
Someone paid to kill him - mostly likely MAlign; or true suicide, although clearly the back of the head is difficult.

Which of the above? I think, like most people, that the MAlign was somehow responsible.

-- Bob G


Who is "he"? Sandra Crandall was a she......
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by n7axw   » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:36 pm

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According to text evidence, MAlign did not intend for Byng, Crandal, Filereta, or Rajampet to survive. That was part of covering their tracks.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by tonyz   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:58 am

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n7axw wrote:According to text evidence, MAlign did not intend for Byng, Crandal, Filereta, or Rajampet to survive. That was part of covering their tracks.

Don


Yes, but the assassination methods discussed included visits to various MAlign "entertainment" facilities, which suggests that even if the Alignment was planning to nano-zap them, they hadn't actually done it yet.

So right now I'm leaning towards the "fragging by crew" theory -- we just don't have enough data about her bridge staff to know who might have done it.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by Eagleeye   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:19 am

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tonyz wrote:So right now I'm leaning towards the "fragging by crew" theory -- we just don't have enough data about her bridge staff to know who might have done it.


My 2 cents point to that FF-guy, Hago Shavarshyan, because he is the least likely candidate ;) But, otoh, the ... mutual dislike between BF and FF, combined with his boxseat experience of how Crandall act, could be reason enough - even without MAlign influence - to cross that particular limit.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:12 am

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tonyz wrote:Yes, but the assassination methods discussed included visits to various MAlign "entertainment" facilities, which suggests that even if the Alignment was planning to nano-zap them, they hadn't actually done it yet.

They wouldn't scragg their own dupes before they "screwed the pooch". That’s why Filereta wasn’t torched till he gave the order to surrender. They had plenty of opportunity to collect DNA from them in the "entertainment" facilities & plant the nanos.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by tonyz   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:48 am

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MAD-4A wrote:
tonyz wrote:Yes, but the assassination methods discussed included visits to various MAlign "entertainment" facilities, which suggests that even if the Alignment was planning to nano-zap them, they hadn't actually done it yet.

They wouldn't scragg their own dupes before they "screwed the pooch". That’s why Filereta wasn’t torched till he gave the order to surrender. They had plenty of opportunity to collect DNA from them in the "entertainment" facilities & plant the nanos.


The nano needs a trigger condition to go off, and (to cover their tracks) a plausible reason for whatever it is to happen. I don't think they're confident enough they can predict everything beforehand so the situation is right for them to pull the trigger on command, and it's too uncertain waiting for an environmental cue.

I think.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by kenl511   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:10 pm

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Eagleeye wrote:
tonyz wrote:So right now I'm leaning towards the "fragging by crew" theory -- we just don't have enough data about her bridge staff to know who might have done it.


My 2 cents point to that FF-guy, Hago Shavarshyan, because he is the least likely candidate ;) But, otoh, the ... mutual dislike between BF and FF, combined with his boxseat experience of how Crandall act, could be reason enough - even without MAlign influence - to cross that particular limit.

Bautista, definitely Pepe Bautista. Paid by MA'lign.
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by PalmerSperry   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:14 pm

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Eagleeye wrote:My 2 cents point to that FF-guy, Hago Shavarshyan, because he is the least likely candidate ;) But, otoh, the ... mutual dislike between BF and FF, combined with his boxseat experience of how Crandall act, could be reason enough - even without MAlign influence - to cross that particular limit.


On the other hand, the rest of the BF staff wouldn't have much in the way of reasons for not saying "It was him!" whereas they might have a greater willingness to stick to the story if one of them did it. (Though that then leaves open the question as to why Hago Shavarshyan is keeping his mouth shut?)
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Re: Battle of Spindle Aftermath
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:14 pm

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tonyz wrote:The nano needs a trigger condition to go off, and (to cover their tracks) a plausible reason for whatever it is to happen. I don't think they're confident enough they can predict everything beforehand so the situation is right for them to pull the trigger on command, and it's too uncertain waiting for an environmental cue...

Anything can be a trigger – with 11th fleet it was when Filareta ordered “strike the wedge” & Daniels activated. For Crandal it could have been the same – she says “strike the wedge” & Yoink-POW!
Arnold Giancola was just flying threw the right area when he "activated". considering what happened to Daniels I think the Manty experts were a little short on its capabilities.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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