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First Technical Mission To Bolthole

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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by kzt   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:29 pm

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They can't get that close before getting picked up. If the target had adequate missile defenses they will pop it.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by quark   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:37 pm

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They had to go active in the last 100,000km (IIRC) in order to actually lock onto and hit their targets. Also, according to Theisman, they would be far less effective against prepared targets/an active sensor watch.

Do we know how much stealth capability is built into the graser torps? Or is it that they are small and don't have any power plants to give them away?
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by kzt   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:58 pm

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quark wrote:Do we know how much stealth capability is built into the graser torps? Or is it that they are small and don't have any power plants to give them away?

They are absurdly stealthy. They are probably the most stealthy devices in the Honorverse. Vastly more stealthy than physics will allow. Then again all honorverse ships and missiles are also much more stealthy than physics will allow.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by TheMonster   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:46 pm

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cthia wrote:Also, if I remember correctly, Mistletoe plaforms were hunter killer platforms used to destroy pods and Haven's Moriarty platforms.

In so many stories, Manticore's stealthiness gets them so close to enemy ships. Why aren't Mistletoe platforms used to get in close to enemy ships? Are up the kilt laser shots ineffective?
Because Moriarty platforms are in fixed orbits, and therefore stationary given the correct frame of reference. That means that Mistletoe can pull very low accel to sneak up on the target and remain undetected, much like the graser torps in Oyster Bay/Yawata Strike. Unless you happen to catch your enemy ship sitting in a ballistic orbit with its wedge down, it will be maneuvering too quickly for such a sneak attack to succeed.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by jgnfld   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:17 pm

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Of course any competent system defense designer will notice this and counter it after the first implementation or two of that strategy.

The obvious counter would be to essentially repeat the random zig zags of convoys trying to avoid submarine attacks except now in 3 dimensions instead of 2.

Detweilers + graser missiles are essentially a submarine analog--I'm pretty sure quite consciously on the author's part--in order to continue the naval analogies of the Honorverse.

Submarines were very successful until countermeasures were employed. Convoying was the first great success as it limited the ability to gain attack positions on shipping (i.e., usually no targets, then far too many to deal with). Then protecting attacked convoys was the second. This all came to a head off Newfoundland when 30 U-boats attacked ONS-5 off of Newfoundland in a battle which can be compared in importance to any fleet action of WW2. I expect some sort of ONS-5 sort of battle from David.

Oyster Bay was a sort of mega-Scapa Flow a la Prien.

TheMonster wrote:
cthia wrote:Also, if I remember correctly, Mistletoe plaforms were hunter killer platforms used to destroy pods and Haven's Moriarty platforms.

In so many stories, Manticore's stealthiness gets them so close to enemy ships. Why aren't Mistletoe platforms used to get in close to enemy ships? Are up the kilt laser shots ineffective?
Because Moriarty platforms are in fixed orbits, and therefore stationary given the correct frame of reference. That means that Mistletoe can pull very low accel to sneak up on the target and remain undetected, much like the graser torps in Oyster Bay/Yawata Strike. Unless you happen to catch your enemy ship sitting in a ballistic orbit with its wedge down, it will be maneuvering too quickly for such a sneak attack to succeed.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by cthia   » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:45 pm

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TheMonster wrote:
cthia wrote:Also, if I remember correctly, Mistletoe plaforms were hunter killer platforms used to destroy pods and Haven's Moriarty platforms.

In so many stories, Manticore's stealthiness gets them so close to enemy ships. Why aren't Mistletoe platforms used to get in close to enemy ships? Are up the kilt laser shots ineffective?
Because Moriarty platforms are in fixed orbits, and therefore stationary given the correct frame of reference. That means that Mistletoe can pull very low accel to sneak up on the target and remain undetected, much like the graser torps in Oyster Bay/Yawata Strike. Unless you happen to catch your enemy ship sitting in a ballistic orbit with its wedge down, it will be maneuvering too quickly for such a sneak attack to succeed.

Thanks Monster. As always I knew I had to be missing something.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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