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First Technical Mission To Bolthole

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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by kzt   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:58 pm

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wholf359 wrote:I am pretty sure the MA has no clue about the Mayan sector weapons since they have been fanatical about keeping things secret. I expect this to come back and bite the MA hard since the Mayan sector is going to be another safe haven that will compete with the RF during the breakup of the League.

No, the MA clearly has sources deep inside the Maya plot. They know perfectly well what is going on and who is getting what.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by Amaroq   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:02 pm

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kzt wrote:
wholf359 wrote:I am pretty sure the MA has no clue about the Mayan sector weapons since they have been fanatical about keeping things secret. I expect this to come back and bite the MA hard since the Mayan sector is going to be another safe haven that will compete with the RF during the breakup of the League.

No, the MA clearly has sources deep inside the Maya plot. They know perfectly well what is going on and who is getting what.


Hmm, that's ominous. Do you know where that's stated? I haven't been looking as deeply into this aspect of the plot so I haven't come across many references to Maya among the MA leaders yet.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by kzt   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:09 pm

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Amaroq wrote:Hmm, that's ominous. Do you know where that's stated? I haven't been looking as deeply into this aspect of the plot so I haven't come across many references to Maya among the MA leaders yet.

MoH chapter 44

Ford nodded, as did a couple of the others, and Detweiler reminded himself—again—of all the manifold reasons what he'd just said was true.

The last thing they could afford at this critical juncture was for the rest of the galaxy to decide that the corrupt, outlaw corporations of Mesa were secretly pulling the strings behind these men and women. The very thing that made them so critical to the Alignment's ultimate success was the fact that there had never been a single trace of a connection between one of them and Mesa. All of them came from families which had been part of their native societies for so long their bona fides were beyond question. All had well-earned reputations as capable, farsighted, deeply involved heads of state. Each had expressed his or her own condemnation of genetic slavery, and most had been actively involved in stamping it out in their own societies. And unlike the vast majority of Solarian League politicians, there had never been even a hint of corruption or venality attached to any of them.

Which meant they were absolutely essential. When the Manties hammered the SLN into wreckage yet again—when the carefully primed "spontaneous rebellions" broke out in a dozen places simultaneously in the Verge as the League Navy's reputation crumbled, and when the score of Frontier Security governors who'd been carefully prepared by their own versions of Aldona Anisimovna followed the example of the Maya Sector and unilaterally assumed emergency powers in order to "protect" the citizens of their sectors—the men and women around this table with Albert Detweiler would emerge as the leaders of a new interstellar power.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by SWM   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:19 pm

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Amaroq wrote:Secondly, Benjamin Detweiler himself chimes in from ART:

“The same thought had occurred to me,” Benjamin said grimly. As the commander of the Alignment’s navy, he was only too well aware of what the only navies with operational pod-laying ships-of-the-wall and multidrive missiles could do if they were allied instead of shooting at one another.


However he kind of contradicts himself a bit later when talking about the Andermani:

"Get Gustav out of the Sollies’ line of fire and let him take care of us. It’s not like they’re going to need his pod-layers to kick the SLN’s ass! And we just happen to have left the Andies’ support structure completely intact, haven’t we? That mean’s they’ve got plenty of MDMs, and if Gustav comes after us while staying out of the confrontation with the League, do you really think any of our ‘friends’ in Old Chicago’ll do one damned thing to stop him?"


He doesn't contradict himself. Reread that first quote--it says "the only navies with operational pod-laying ships-of-the-wall and multidrive missiles". Navies, plural. I think that includes Manticore, Haven, and the Andermani. One might presume from this that they don't know everything about Erewhon's and Maya's construction, or are not counting it because it is not ready yet.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by wholf359   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:23 pm

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I still doubt that the MA has detailed knowledge of what the Mayan sector is up to because of the battle of Torch. There we saw inner onion members surprised by Roszak being there, his ships and his weapons. I doubt Luff would of been sent to attack if they knew Roszak had all the Ships and weapons he did.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:24 pm

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SWM wrote:
Amaroq wrote:Secondly, Benjamin Detweiler himself chimes in from ART:

>>“The same thought had occurred to me,” Benjamin said grimly. As the commander of the Alignment’s navy, he was only too well aware of what the only navies with operational pod-laying ships-of-the-wall and multidrive missiles could do if they were allied instead of shooting at one another.<<

However he kind of contradicts himself a bit later when talking about the Andermani

He doesn't contradict himself. Reread that first quote--it says "the only navies with operational pod-laying ships-of-the-wall and multidrive missiles". Navies, plural. I think that includes Manticore, Haven, and the Andermani. One might presume from this that they don't know everything about Erewhon's and Maya's construction, or are not counting it because it is not ready yet.
And since by the beginning of ART the Andermani were allied with Manticore and Grayson against Haven all the navies with operational SD(P)s and MDMs were shooting at each other; it was just 3 on 1 :D (And the 3 were arguably losing :o)

He may or may not have know the Erewhon was working towards SD(P)s for themselves and Maya; but in either case those clearly weren't operational yet.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by Amaroq   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:47 pm

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SWM wrote:He doesn't contradict himself. Reread that first quote--it says "the only navies with operational pod-laying ships-of-the-wall and multidrive missiles". Navies, plural. I think that includes Manticore, Haven, and the Andermani. One might presume from this that they don't know everything about Erewhon's and Maya's construction, or are not counting it because it is not ready yet.


I might have misinterpreted what he was saying because of the context in which it was said. Benjamin and Albrecht had been talking about the Manties, Graysons, and Havenites specifically before that and when he said "navies" I thought he was continuing with that line of thought. You're right that he doesn't make any reference to Maya here but their podnaughts aren't operational yet (but hopefully soon :D ).
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:47 pm

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Question.
I recall somewhat of a detection of the Mesan ship entering Manticore space. I think someone called it the hyper emergence signature.

I'm curious as to what technology actually detected it?
Was it regular gravitics that registered it?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by Vince   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:25 pm

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cthia wrote:Question.
I recall somewhat of a detection of the Mesan ship entering Manticore space. I think someone called it the hyper emergence signature.

I'm curious as to what technology actually detected it?
Was it regular gravitics that registered it?

It was the big gravitic arrays that watch over the system up to several light weeks (if not light months).
Storm From the Shadows, Chapter 51 wrote:No translation, however slow and gentle, could render a hyper footprint too weak to be detected by the sort of arrays covering the Manticore Binary System. Yet arrays like that, because of their very sensitivity, were notorious for throwing up occasional "false positives," ghost translations that the filters were supposed to strain out before they ever reached a human operator's attention. And the most common ghosts of all normally appeared as a hyper footprint and an echo, which was precisely what Topolev's maneuver was supposed to counterfeit.

****Snip****

"What've you got for me, Clint?"

****Snip****

"Probably nothing, Ma'am," he told her now. "Looks like a ghost to me, but it popped through the filters. Right here."
He used a cursor to indicate the faint, almost invisible light splotch, then zoomed in. At maximum zoom, it was evident that there were actually two light splotches, each tagged with the time it had appeared, and Epstein grimaced at the telltale sign of a ghost footprint.
"I take it that this thing was strong enough the computers classified it as a genuine possible?" she said.
"That's what happened, all right, Ma'am," McCormick agreed.
"Well, better safe than sorry." Epstein sighed, then flicked her head in a sort of shorthand shrug. "I'll kick it upstairs, and they'll roust out some poor cruiser or destroyer division to go take a look."

****Snip****

Given the range on the possible footprint, the datum was over twelve hours old. Footprints, like gravitic pulses, were detectable by the fluctuations they imposed on the alpha wall interface with normal-space, which meant they propagated at roughly sixty-four times the speed of light. For most practical purposes, that equated to real-time, or very near to real-time, but when you started talking about the detection ranges possible to Perimeter Security Command's huge arrays, even that speed left room for considerable delays.
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Re: First Technical Mission To Bolthole
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:07 pm

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Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:Question.
I recall somewhat of a detection of the Mesan ship entering Manticore space. I think someone called it the hyper emergence signature.

I'm curious as to what technology actually detected it?
Was it regular gravitics that registered it?

It was the big gravitic arrays that watch over the system up to several light weeks (if not light months).
Storm From the Shadows, Chapter 51 wrote:No translation, however slow and gentle, could render a hyper footprint too weak to be detected by the sort of arrays covering the Manticore Binary System. Yet arrays like that, because of their very sensitivity, were notorious for throwing up occasional "false positives," ghost translations that the filters were supposed to strain out before they ever reached a human operator's attention. And the most common ghosts of all normally appeared as a hyper footprint and an echo, which was precisely what Topolev's maneuver was supposed to counterfeit.

****Snip****

"What've you got for me, Clint?"

****Snip****

"Probably nothing, Ma'am," he told her now. "Looks like a ghost to me, but it popped through the filters. Right here."
He used a cursor to indicate the faint, almost invisible light splotch, then zoomed in. At maximum zoom, it was evident that there were actually two light splotches, each tagged with the time it had appeared, and Epstein grimaced at the telltale sign of a ghost footprint.
"I take it that this thing was strong enough the computers classified it as a genuine possible?" she said.
"That's what happened, all right, Ma'am," McCormick agreed.
"Well, better safe than sorry." Epstein sighed, then flicked her head in a sort of shorthand shrug. "I'll kick it upstairs, and they'll roust out some poor cruiser or destroyer division to go take a look."

****Snip****

Given the range on the possible footprint, the datum was over twelve hours old. Footprints, like gravitic pulses, were detectable by the fluctuations they imposed on the alpha wall interface with normal-space, which meant they propagated at roughly sixty-four times the speed of light. For most practical purposes, that equated to real-time, or very near to real-time, but when you started talking about the detection ranges possible to Perimeter Security Command's huge arrays, even that speed left room for considerable delays.


Thanks for techical info. I was trying to imagine what possible direction detection hardware may take. If the only hardware that detected them were the huge arrays, then Bolthole may have its hands full.

Also, if I remember correctly, Mistletoe plaforms were hunter killer platforms used to destroy pods and Haven's Moriarty platforms.

In so many stories, Manticore's stealthiness gets them so close to enemy ships. Why aren't Mistletoe platforms used to get in close to enemy ships? Are up the kilt laser shots ineffective?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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