Training Ships

KNick wrote:2 years or less after that to start rolling out the first ships. Call it 3 1/2 years from the Yawata Strike to the first new DD or CL, four years for the first CA or BC and five for the first SD. That includes all the time for testing the production lines and QC.

That means that a SL core world could do even faster given a set of plans, since core worlds actually have industry and are not having to bootstrap everything.

Of course, this timeline will go completely to hell if "something unfortunate" was to "accidentally" happen to Beowulf.

KNick wrote:....If Manticore starts right now, they will be turning out the people they need from Talbott at about the same time that they need them.

As for how much time it takes, I would point out Aubrey Wanderman's musings in HAE. It took him nearly two years to get through school after he finished Basic, and he already understood the basics of his chosen field.

I would note that while I agree with the time line for training skilled positions like Fusion Tech or Astrogater, there are always positions that do not require that much training--like Cook 1st Class or Supply and Logistics or other "paper pushers" that keep a ship functioning. For that matter, I would think that most of the Talbott systems have Marines, of which some will certainly qualify (with some specialized advanced training)for the SEM Corps in a relatively short time.

And there are trained officers and specialists out there--we know Rembrant and other systems had SDF's, so the people there are already among the best and brightest, and need not start at the bottom--more like High Schoolers or first-year College needing a year or so of Graduate Ed.

We shall see.

Hutch wrote:

KNick wrote:....If Manticore starts right now, they will be turning out the people they need from Talbott at about the same time that they need them.

As for how much time it takes, I would point out Aubrey Wanderman's musings in HAE. It took him nearly two years to get through school after he finished Basic, and he already understood the basics of his chosen field.

I would note that while I agree with the time line for training skilled positions like Fusion Tech or Astrogater, there are always positions that do not require that much training--like Cook 1st Class or Supply and Logistics or other "paper pushers" that keep a ship functioning. For that matter, I would think that most of the Talbott systems have Marines, of which some will certainly qualify (with some specialized advanced training)for the SEM Corps in a relatively short time.

And there are trained officers and specialists out there--we know Rembrant and other systems had SDF's, so the people there are already among the best and brightest, and need not start at the bottom--more like High Schoolers or first-year College needing a year or so of Graduate Ed.

We shall see.

That depends on how much cross-discipline training is done in the RMN. We know the Marines used to be trained as weapon gunners and damage control personnel.

While it's easy enough to train up a cook or supply clerk, it must be worth taking additional time to train them in other areas, especially with shrinking crew complements. An old SD can afford to devote 50 bunks to people who do nothing but cook or push paper. Maybe a new SD(P) can afford fifteen bunks. A Roland-class can't afford to do the same with two or three bunks.

It's sort of like the LAC effect. Vastly smaller crews, yes, but each one of them still requires a highly trained core crew - the CO, gunner, engineer, etc.. Their single assistants(if present) need to be more competent than the multiple assistants aboard a thousand-plus crew.

KNick wrote:To KZT and Jonathan_S:

You are both right in your approaches to this topic. But I think KZT is over-estimating the time required and Jonathan_S is under-estimating the time. We are already 6 months into rebuilding the infrastructure with the first results of that due out in the next three to six months. Another year from now to finish that rebuilding to the point that Manticore is ready to start building ships again. 2 years or less after that to start rolling out the first ships. Call it 3 1/2 years from the Yawata Strike to the first new DD or CL, four years for the first CA or BC and five for the first SD. That includes all the time for testing the production lines and QC.

We actually have some numbers from Admiral White Haven, just after the Yawata Strike:

That means that what we have in commission and working up at Trevor's Star now is all we're going to have for at least two T-years. For any capital ships, the delay will be more like four T-years. Minimum.

That was before Beowulf and Haven joined the Grand Alliance, so I assume their worst-case analysis has been avoided. There were comments in ART implying that recovery is proceeding faster than predicted. The phrase "all we're going to have" implies two years to get the first completed ships rather than two years before ship construction starts. But his forecast probably refers to ships coming off the line, and does not include trials and workup time.

White Haven's conversation took place at the end of February 1922. By the end of SoF, we are up to the end of August 1922. So I did underestimate a bit. If White Haven's forecast is running true, it will be one and a half years before the first ships come out of the yards. Those ships will probably spend even longer in trials and workup than would have been true previously, because the yards and yard crews are all new. But ships working up would be a fine place to put raw spacers fresh out of training (along with old hands to keep things running smoothly). They can learn a lot as the ship works through its trials.

munroburton wrote:

Hutch wrote:I would note that while I agree with the time line for training skilled positions like Fusion Tech or Astrogater, there are always positions that do not require that much training--like Cook 1st Class or Supply and Logistics or other "paper pushers" that keep a ship functioning. For that matter, I would think that most of the Talbott systems have Marines, of which some will certainly qualify (with some specialized advanced training)for the SEM Corps in a relatively short time.

That depends on how much cross-discipline training is done in the RMN. We know the Marines used to be trained as weapon gunners and damage control personnel.

Yep, in a lot of ways the RMMC (at least as of OBS; but it probably hasn't changed with the newer increased automation ships) needed more training than a naval rating, because the marines were trained to do the naval job and the marine combat job.


Now there may be parts of the Marine Corp that don't need that level of cross training (like units assigned to Kamerling or Broadsword-class cruisers; which are primarily marine transports and control units. A lot of their marines wouldn't have a routine shipboard job because they carry so many.

But by and large I suspect the Talbott Marines are probably a better fit for the Royal Manticoran Army than the RMMC. Or of course for the Talbott Guard which could, as a new force, better optimize training and utilization around the abilities and limitations of the troops composing it.


And going back to training ships, I assume if for some reason the ship building did go completely off the rails that Manticore would look to temporarily pull existing ships from mothballs before they'd build dedicated training ships.