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Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations

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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by TheMonster   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:57 pm

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cthia wrote:Actually, I missed that day in English. That was my day to skip.
Your day, was the day prior, where one learns that its ok, to be anal.
Its ok, to be retentive.
It's not ok, to marry the two.
Actually, I am painfully aware that a lot of people think it's bad form to point out errors in grammar and spelling. Somehow it's not bad form to call folks like me names (of which "anal retentive" is probably one of the milder sort). Funny how that works.

I assume that you amassed your huge net worth without having to work in a job that required communicating with others. I can only guess as to the sorts of jobs where no one cares about how you write, but still pay so handsomely.

Should current trends continue, I'll have to say that DW's dialogues are unrealistic. In two millenia, our descendents will obviously sound like Jar-Jar Binks rather than the articulate people he portrays.

"Meesa shoot missile at Manties!" Given the abysmal education he says the typical Dolist has, even that might be too advanced.
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:04 am

cthia
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Daryl wrote:Good topic.
I'll throw out a controversial point regarding sexuality, in that I can't see how prolong would lead to harmful sexual predation.

Thanks.

I am not implying that prolong would lead us down that road.
We have already been led, down that road.

I am simply saying that young minds are much more easily confounded than we, as responsible denizens of society, would like.

And IMHO, a drug that would visually lend credence to an already established sexual offender's claim of "I'm not even 18, so it's ok," presents a problem.

I do not agree with an earlier post
would not significantly change their predations. It might cause a few naive sorts to lower their guard in the early years of prolong, but it doesn't take long for people raised with it to adjust to the new norms of "how old does he look".


Which seems to imply that we, even now, have adjusted to how old someone looks.

And isn't that the point that I am trying to make.
You can't allow the filtering process to be sieved into "how old someone looks even in our own society without prolong.

My niece is only 12 years old.
She is rather tall for her age, and if she had not been skipped two grades she would tower over kids in her class.
Her high IQ and striking good looks catches the attention of much older boys.

Several months ago, my sister was hotter than a solar flare because a 23 year old boy tried to pass himself off as 15. The kid looked the part, but he didn't count on my sister's thoroughness.

If any of you believe that a society that looks younger wouldn't inherently make it easier for established sexual offenders are kidding themselves.

I am not saying that prolong will create more offenders.

I am simply saying that it will make it easier for the already established pool of offenders to swim in their dirty deeds.

And although I am not implying that prolong will encourage someone to become a predator, it just might.

Consider a much older gentleman, whom finds himself in an under 21 dance club.

Consider an underage girl of 16 whom has gained access to same club.

Gentleman believes that this beautiful 16 year old is actually 18 or older.

Upon finding she is not, he may very well decide that since she does not suspect his age, it will be ok.
Call it, an opportunistic sex-offense act.
Last edited by cthia on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:29 am

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Interest rates at banks. Or retirement ages.

Interest rates at banks say 5% a year after 200 years and your savings suddenly gets to a point when you are rich. How rich? $100,000 after 200 years would be at 5% compounded $1.7 billion. Rich enough.

Retirement will not be 62 or 68 but 222.

Old people costs are already a problem with old people living to late 70's to early 90's. When old people start living from 222 to 315. That's going to be a long time on a pension, long time in a retirement home.

Now presumably dimensia will be cured otherwise it and arthritis and other age related diseases are going to be a problem.

Apathy is another problem. Instead of putting off that trip or phone call which for us becomes 2-5 years might be 10 to 20 years. The out of touch for 23 years may be 100 years.

This of course offers even more marriage and divorce problems plus the multiple polygamy partners no longer being a 50th anniversary but instead a 250 year. If anyone ever gets that far. Or after getting the Elizabeth Taylor type starting on their 34th husband or husbands two at a time might be 65.

Luckily they'll be rich.

Tenure at a University will be a sweet ride. 270 years of guaranteed employment.

This of course is another thing to consider in the military. No longer can a rank be a 2-5 year step. No Ensign to Admiral in 20 years. Have to make it 180 years ensign to Admiral. Or you will end up with a lot of Admirals.
Last edited by Lord Skimper on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
________________________________________
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:30 am

cthia
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TheMonster wrote:
cthia wrote:Actually, I missed that day in English. That was my day to skip.
Your day, was the day prior, where one learns that its ok, to be anal.
Its ok, to be retentive.
It's not ok, to marry the two.
Actually, I am painfully aware that a lot of people think it's bad form to point out errors in grammar and spelling. Somehow it's not bad form to call folks like me names (of which "anal retentive" is probably one of the milder sort). Funny how that works.

I assume that you amassed your huge net worth without having to work in a job that required communicating with others. I can only guess as to the sorts of jobs where no one cares about how you write, but still pay so handsomely.

Should current trends continue, I'll have to say that DW's dialogues are unrealistic. In two millenia, our descendents will obviously sound like Jar-Jar Binks rather than the articulate people he portrays.

"Meesa shoot missile at Manties!" Given the abysmal education he says the typical Dolist has, even that might be too advanced.

:lol:
Whew, man are you wrapped tightly!

They care about how I write.
They just don't care about how I write, in a forum.

What they really care about is that I do my job and I do it well, and don't care about the handsome salary that they pay me. I work because I love my field and my career and I feel as if I am doing something important.

And if I were to write for profit, I can afford to hire an editor. You would be my first choice! I am certain you wouldn't miss a thing.

And please allow me to apologize in advance so perhaps you won't waste a thread on it...

I have a tendency to not use enough commas, sometimes I don't properly punctuate, sometimes I don't use a capital at the beginning of sentences, sometimes I don't even use complete sentences...because I am making time to visit the forum. Almost all the time I am in the forum I am, watching sports (tennis at the mo) compiling software and programming, talking on the phone, usually overseas, socializing, and courting.

In fact, when I read your post I was on a call with my accountant, whom is overseas. Recent laws have changed regarding offshore bank accounts. Many people legally use offshore accounts as some protection against local financial instability.

You really don't have a clue, do you?

And one more thing.
I am doing all of this, on a 7 inch device with a software keyboard. My big thumbs on a hunt-and-peck paradigm. It does not motivate lotsa (excuse word, i can feel your knickers bunchin up) typing, rather cryptic sentences, like texting on older phones.

U should feel 4tunate that i don't communicate like this.

I do not use my business computer, or development computers for forums or chats.

The less that they are online, the less of a security risk.
Besides, my development computers are always busy.

When I first joined the forum I caught alot of feedback about my improvised signature and had a hard time explaining why I couldn't access it, that a part of my screen was inaccessible in my environment and I was snowed in at the beach with no other computers hiding the fact that I was foruming (he's making up words :o ) from my fiancee.

How I amassed my fortune was in various ways, not all in one endeavor.
My first million was made before the completion of my undergraduate studies.
My third million before the fruition of grad school.
Silicon valley is a planet located off Earth.

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Last edited by cthia on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:14 am, edited 4 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by NortonIDaughter   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:33 am

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Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:09 pm

drothgery wrote:
FWIW, the way prolong is treated in the Honorverse has always seemed a bit off to me. On one hand, everyone in the 'first world' of the Honorverse thinks its normal universal and longstanding institutions like religions and militaries (and least in Manticore's case) have made changes in response to it. On the other, as of 1922 PD, no one's actually lived longer with prolong than they theoretically could have without it. And no one seems to mention that when 'first world' people head out to the back beyond where they don't have universal prolong (or didn't until much more recently), they ought to be as freaked out by actual old people (remember at this point on Manticore, almost no native-born Manticoran are dying of old age for another century or so; almost everyone who was too old to get prolong is already dead, and no one with prolong is physically old) as Graysons were by ships crewed by 'children'.


The only time I've had this same reaction was when Howard Clinksclaes died-- I don't care how firmly Honor had his age lodged in her intellect, she, too, should have seen him as old. She could not have seen him at his age, looking and acting his age, day after day, and still had the gut reaction of "but he's so young!" that she did in the novel. Maybe a "we could have saved him!" response, but her emotions should have responded to him as an old man.



Which leads me to the thought I've most had on the subject: the weirdest thing prolong has done has been to change the pattern of human life. Right now, you spend 20 years a kid, 40 years an adult, and 20 years as "old" (give or take as life experiences dictate). Honor went into the military at 17! The new pattern is apparently, 20 years a kid, 200+ years an adult, and... ? years as "old" (we haven't been told much about the way the treatments stretch out aging).

That's an incredible difference in life experience and expectations, and I can only begin to imagine on what level that would change society. Kids may be rarer-- you can have more, but more people are waiting longer, and they don't "last" as long, if you will. After a certain point, childhood is going to be almost impossible for people to remember. You wait an inconceivably long time before you can retire (though at least you have time to save for it...) I guess with those proportions, you'll never have to worry about not having enough for Social Security...

In a way, society would become far more homogenous, with such an enormous portion of the population going through similar stages of life at once. But is that a benefit, or a drawback?

And while parenting would be largely the same, grandparenting (much less great+++ grandparenting!) would be a totally different experience. Your family has the capacity to be multigenerational to an extreme, but most people in it are going to be living their lives as if they're 30 or 40. Working, dating, paying rent, trying to keep their marriages healthy, raising their own next set of kids if they're so inclined...

And I guess my last thought on it was best discussed in-universe by Allison and Emily: "She's very young, isn't she?" "I'm sure she doesn't think so." To my mind, it's not the number of years you have under your belt that matures you, it's what you lived in them. Howard was older than Honor, because he had lived his entire life. The complete span of years, the entire arc. He was young, he was middle-aged, he became old. I think there's a wealth of wisdom in passion through those stages and everything that makes them up. That's why, as someone on another thread commented, Honor was essentially still a Navy-mad teen in OBS, despite the fact that she was fifty-ish. There's a lack of maturity in being young, knowing you're at the bottom of the ladder, and being (in her personal life) commitment-free.

I guess I'm trying to say there's a difference between just clocking in for sixty years, and living the same proportion of life.

Sorry for the tealness of the deer.
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:18 am

cthia
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SWM wrote:Another effect which has come up a few times but should not be forgotten is the effect on inheritance, promotions, recognition over previous leaders in one's chosen field. The current youth must recognize by now that the people currently holding the positions they aspire might still be there in a hundred years or more.


I never considered its effect on inheritance.
My great grandfather recently died and left a sizeable portfolio of assets. The beneficiaries were only generally named and it could have turned into a fiasco.

I could not believe how many people were actually afected by his will.
Enter prolong, and this could become impossible.
I recently updated my own will. New things and people are constantly being considered. I don't keep it updated as often as I should, but I promise to do better.

I can imagine how a will lasting for hundreds of years can become a sad state of disarray.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:54 am

cthia
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Posts: 12968
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Lord Skimper wrote:Interest rates at banks. Or retirement ages.

Interest rates at banks say 5% a year after 200 years and your savings suddenly gets to a point when you are rich. How rich? $100,000 after 200 years would be at 5% compounded $1.7 billion. Rich enough.

Exactly!
I wonder how lottery winnings for life are handled?
Lord Skimper wrote:Retirement will not be 62 or 68 but 222.

Gees!
Lord Skimper wrote:Old people costs are already a problem with old people living to late 70's to early 90's. When old people start living from 222 to 315. That's going to be a long time on a pension, long time in a retirement home.

How true.
But I miss my great grandfather. He was a very kind and passionate man with a wealth of knowledge stored in his head.
In a prolong society, one could spend lots of time with one's descendants.
Lord Skimper wrote:Apathy is another problem. Instead of putting off that trip or phone call which for us becomes 2-5 years might be 10 to 20 years. The out of touch for 23 years may be 100 years.

I'm guilty of that. Procrastination could become a serious disease.
Lord Skimper wrote:This of course offers even more marriage and divorce problems plus the multiple polygamy partners no longer being a 50th anniversary but instead a 250 year. If anyone ever gets that far. Or after getting the Elizabeth Taylor type starting on their 34th husband or husbands two at a time might be 65.

:lol:
Might also be the cause of an upswing in crime.
Pick a bad spouse and you might not want to wait so long until they die. Oh come on, I watch CSI!
'Til death do us part can be a very long time.


Lord Skimper wrote:Tenure at a University will be a sweet ride. 270 years of guaranteed employment.

No no no. Did you have to mention this?
it also means 250 years of an arse of a professor that everyone, even his colleagues have come to hate.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:11 am

cthia
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Seems our normal mores would have to change drastically.
I can't imagine my 12 year old niece one day married to my best friend, or my best friend's father???
Grandparents are no longer good babysitters because they are out dancing in the clubs with you.
I actually have a chance at a certain babysitter now. Just wait a few decades, she'll still look good.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:35 am

cthia
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Recently I assisted a single family mother left with four kids. Outrageous medical bills, incurred while caring for her now deceased husband and lousy insurance, left her in dire straits. Her credit score...let's not even go there.

It makes me wonder, how far back should transgressions remain on one's credit report in a prolong society.

How long would be a good measure of one's payment performance?

I just paid off all of her bills then opened her a secured credit account to help rebuild her credit.

Would it have been so easy in a prolong society?

I detest the necessity of renewing my driver's license.
In a prolong society I would be doing this quite often.

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Last edited by cthia on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Prolong and Unforeseen Considerations
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:19 am

cthia
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cthia wrote:On the other hand Life Insurance policies and similar ventures would suddenly become quite interesting.
Suddenly, payouts have the potential to become astronomical.


I should have made this clear. Sorry. I only meant that it seems longevity of life would somehow affect the insurance industry. (drawbacks to watching tennis and operating in a forum)

What brought this to my attention is that I recently helped a single mother who was trying to dig herself out of an economic crisis. She was considering selling her policy to a company that purchases policies. Would they be interested if her life expectancy had been so high?

Now I know that some companies are only interested in using the policies as collateral and aren't really concerned with the payout. But still.

As far as astronomical payouts, I was considering ventures such as savings accounts, etc.

Personally I don't own a policy.
My loved one's are looked after in my will.
And my burial expenses shouldn't be a problem unless caskets rise to multi-million dollar expenses.

There are certain headaches that accompany the management of one's portfolio. Tracking the performance of stocks and other investments, and tracking the performance of those you pay handsomely to do this for you, for so long will eventually get on my nerves.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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