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Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent

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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:51 am

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Garth 2 wrote:They have been spending a lot of time and money building there operation.

Don't forget Detweiler and co. founded the onion whilst the SL its self was all shine and new, which does raise the interesting question of how much of the current SL problems (corruption, infighting, criminal activity etc.) can be laid at the Mesans' door.

That... is a very interesting point.
I remember reading somewhere on this site that the League lasted just fine for the first couple of centuries before the whole bureaucrat/corruption/regulation thing set in.
I assumed that it was just misplaced liberalism, but now...
You have to ask just which parts Mesa would have targeted though. Education would be the best way to strike down a society since if you can train kids young enough, you can raise them to believe that all politicians are evil and the government exists only to stamp down on everyone.
I know that I had a few teachers like that...
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by kzt   » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:49 am

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Michael Everett wrote: you can raise them to believe that all politicians are evil and the government exists only to stamp down on everyone.
I know that I had a few teachers like that...

Well, it's not hard to convince people that the sky is blue either.
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:54 pm

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kzt wrote:
Michael Everett wrote: you can raise them to believe that all politicians are evil and the government exists only to stamp down on everyone.
I know that I had a few teachers like that...

Well, it's not hard to convince people that the sky is blue either.

There you go, proof that it worked.
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by munroburton   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:34 pm

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kzt wrote:
Michael Everett wrote: you can raise them to believe that all politicians are evil and the government exists only to stamp down on everyone.
I know that I had a few teachers like that...

Well, it's not hard to convince people that the sky is blue either.


Ah, but sometimes the sky is grey, white or black. Sometimes it's even green, pink or red.
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by kzt   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:01 pm

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munroburton wrote:Ah, but sometimes the sky is grey, white or black. Sometimes it's even green, pink or red.

That's true. And sometimes the government official telling you to get in the boxcars really does have your best interests at heart. However most of the time the sky is blue, and no he doesn't.
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:09 pm

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As per my original post, one question remains...
"Which head to sever?"

Will killing Detweiler and his sons kill the MAlignment, or has it become greater than the sum of its parts?

Clearly, just killing Albrecht himself will only see his sons replace him.

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Last edited by cthia on Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by SWM   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:31 pm

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My only half facetious reply is: every head needs to be cut off, and the stump burned. The writhing heads need to be buried under boulders. All while wearing a mask to defend against the poisonous fumes. Just like Hercules' second labor.

It actually seems appropriate. This conspiracy truly is poisonous, and the galaxy will not be safe until the organization is utterly cut to pieces and purged. No, I don't think just killing Detweiler is sufficient.
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:00 pm

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I think you're over-thinking it. The MAlign's strategic objective is to break up the SL and neutralize Beowulf so the pieces can coalesce around a nucleus that will be receptive to their ideas of "uplift." Mesa, with the tidal wave of corruption it's causing, was always a means to an end, and they fully intended to throw it away in the end game. Consider:

Mission of Honor, Chapter 38.3 wrote:By now, the Darius System's total population was in the very near vicinity of 3.9 billion, of whom just under two billion were representatives of one of the alpha, beta, or gamma genomes the Alignment had worked to improve for so long. The remainder of the system population were genetic slaves, but the conditions of their slavery were very unlike those which obtained elsewhere. For one thing, they were treated far better, without the often savage discipline slaves often received elsewhere. In fact, the Darius System was one of the very few places where the Mesan Constitution's official legal protections theoretically intended to protect slaves from gross mistreatment were actually enforced. For another, they had a much higher standard of living. And for yet another, they formed the backbone of a highly trained, highly skilled labor force which had earned the respect of its supervisors.


The MAlign doesn't care one iota what happens to Mesa or what steps others take to clean up the mess as long as they get their strategic objectives out of it: breaking up the SL, neutralizing Beowulf and having a seed that the new order will coalesce around.

Once the MAlign leaves Mesa I suspect that the political situation will develop in a hurry. Remember the situation in Crown of Slaves where one of Mesa Pharmaceutical's managers wanted to cut down on the wastage of slave labor on Verdant Vista by installing automation, and got overruled by someone who we can assume was on an inner layer of the Onion? Without that kind of interference things may move in a productive direction if people let it.

As far as I'm concerned, what needs to be done with Mesa is cordon it off under a "what happens on Mesa stays on Mesa, everyone else keep their hands off," Beowulf and Torch being the exceptions and the Ballroom given the task of cleaning up the cut-off tentacles.

Darius is the same: once it's discovered, cordon it off and let it develop its own way. As far as I can tell, Darius is Leonard Detweiller's vision, not Mesa.

Once the Renaissance Factor is hauled into the light, I don't think much else really needs to be done.
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by kzt   » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:03 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:As far as I'm concerned, what needs to be done with Mesa is cordon it off under a "what happens on Mesa stays on Mesa, everyone else keep their hands off," Beowulf and Torch being the exceptions and the Ballroom given the task of cleaning up the cut-off tentacles.

After all, what's a little government organized mass murder between friends? it's not like that had any impact on the way people think of Nazi Germany, why would it have any impact on how people think about the SEM?
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Re: Mesa--Seven Headed Serpent
Post by SWM   » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:01 am

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JohnRoth, we aren't talking about dealing with Mesa the planet, we're talking about the Mesan Alignment.
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