Information I'd love to know

The IAN and shouting distance of the RMN


Howzabout a-bit-o-speculation, on my part.

The Manticorans are sitting atop a goldmine with the MWJ. Proceeds collected from the junction funds an education system and navy second to none. How does the IAN manage to remain so close to parity with the RMN? Where does it get its funding? It certainly speaks volumes of their education.

The Andermani is a much larger polity, a multi-system star nation listed with some twenty one systems. Dunno about now, but these weren't exactly listed as blue chip systems before acquiring. In fact, most systems joined for what they could get from the Andermani than vice versa. I suppose if I look at each struggling system acquired as little "Graysons" it'd make sense. Even so, managing such a large collection of systems w/o graft and corruption is commendable, though I hardly see how they can remain so close to the Manties in tech.

My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

cthia wrote:My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

Fox2! wrote:

cthia wrote:My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

Now that you mention it, I recall something to that effect. But, penetrated the government or the navy? Or both? I wonder how deeply, but if the navy has been penetrated, the depth of the penetration is obvious.

cthia wrote:

Fox2! wrote:
In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

Now that you mention it, I recall something to that effect. But, penetrated the government or the navy? Or both? I wonder how deeply, but if the navy has been penetrated, the depth of the penetration is obvious.

Somebody was penetrated sufficiently for von Rabenstrange to know of Honor's mission with the Q ships. He makes a point of stating while the Emperor is not amused that they were transiting the Empire between the Gregor terminus and Silesia without notification, the Andies weren't going to make a public scene out of it,. He offered assistance to Honor if required, even to the extent of looking the other way if her ships happened to accidentally use Andie transponder codes. IIRC, Honor says that she will be sure to tell the Admiralty of his assistance. And sotto voce, that she would tell the Admiralty that the op was blown, at least as far as the Andies were concerned.

Fox2! wrote:

cthia wrote:My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

Well yes. But also the Andies were founded by a very successful mercenary fleet commander. To the point he was responsible, back in the day, for getting the very first battleships designed and built (back when they were the ultimate naval force; not the has-been 3rd rate wallers they became a few centuries later). (As RFC said once at a panel, basically the League let him relocate out to the far verge to form his own empire, and take his shiny new BBs with him, in exchange for being the very next in line to buy those BBs from the yard.

So for most of Manticore's existence the question wasn't how are the Andies keeping up with them. It was how -- long before the RMN was even within shouting distance of the tech and numbers of the IAN?

The financial and research capabilities enabled by the wormhole were only serious funneled towards the RMN in the last 100 years or so. Basically the Manties don't appear to have really surpassed the IAN until into King Roger's build-up. "Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully" -- the RMN had that, the IAN didn't; so under that pressure the RMN finally surpassed them.

Fox2! wrote:

cthia wrote:My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

Jonathan_S wrote:Well yes. But also the Andies were founded by a very successful mercenary fleet commander. To the point he was responsible, back in the day, for getting the very first battleships designed and built (back when they were the ultimate naval force; not the has-been 3rd rate wallers they became a few centuries later). (As RFC said once at a panel, basically the League let him relocate out to the far verge to form his own empire, and take his shiny new BBs with him, in exchange for being the very next in line to buy those BBs from the yard.

So for most of Manticore's existence the question wasn't how are the Andies keeping up with them. It was how -- long before the RMN was even within shouting distance of the tech and numbers of the IAN?

The financial and research capabilities enabled by the wormhole were only serious funneled towards the RMN in the last 100 years or so. Basically the Manties don't appear to have really surpassed the IAN until into King Roger's build-up. "Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully" -- the RMN had that, the IAN didn't; so under that pressure the RMN finally surpassed them.

There's my missing pages! Thanks Jonathan. As an added benefit, it may even help elucidate why the Andermani developed such a hardon for the RMN, being eclipsed and outclassed by them after enjoying top-dog status for so long.

Now I wonder why the expansionistic Andermani didn't set its sights on the MWJ before the mighty Manties got so—mighty -- even though Andermani "conquests" were allegedly, friendly procurements.

Jonathan_S wrote:The financial and research capabilities enabled by the wormhole were only serious funneled towards the RMN in the last 100 years or so. Basically the Manties don't appear to have really surpassed the IAN until into King Roger's build-up. "Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully" -- the RMN had that, the IAN didn't; so under that pressure the RMN finally surpassed them.

Eh. The RMN didn't make a major investment in its wall of battle or reach rough technological parity with the SLN until King Roger III's build-up, but it seems like the RMN had been involved in Silesia in a big way since the events that led to Saganami's death. Even prior to King Roger's buildup, the RMN was enormous for a single-system polity, it just essentially topped out with its beloved battlecruisers.

Fox2! wrote:

cthia wrote:My first thought was the lack of wars and their crippling cost. But then, Manty tech was born out of the furnace of struggle and forged in the heat of battle after battle with Haven. The Andermani only danced with pirates -- who hardly could push their navy to great heights. I always suspected the Andermani of stealing Manty secrets. High Espionage. What pages am I missing?

In HAE, doesn't von Rabenstrange admit that the Andies have pretty well penetrated the Manticorans at the dinner he hosts for Honor aboard his flagship?

It seems that would prompt Honor to become the catalyst of a new round of vetting and housecleaning. With so many 'Cats around, it seems like penetrating the Manties would be quite a bit harder, well, and live to tell about it.

I’m sure Gustav keeps the corruption pruned way back as well being able to use a significantly higher percent of their GDP on his navy

justdave wrote:I’m sure Gustav keeps the corruption pruned way back as well being able to use a significantly higher percent of their GDP on his navy

I get the impression that the Andermandi Empire has a somewhat feudal, capitalist economic system similar to Manticore's. There is an aristocracy that inherits wealth but commoners have the freedom to prosper and acend the social / political ladder if they are successful.