Orangesky wrote:I am actually quite exited regarding the movie. Here is my opinion regarding two of the issues:
1. The need to differentiate between the ships of the two major navies (Heaven and Manticore) is of course there, but it does not need to be extreme.
As RFC mentioned, the real life differences between ships of different navies are subtle to a lay person, because similar constraints guide the design and if something works for one Navy, the other will adopt is as well.
The Honorverse has the same realistic approach to design and the movie should reflect this realism.
For example, if you look at WW2 ships of the Japanese Navy and the US Navy, they are visually very similar. Basic hull form, position of weapons, sensors etc.
Despite this, people do not have problems telling who is who in a WW2 war movie. Subtle design differences, different uniforms, flags, music, lighting, colours etc. should be sufficient.
There is no need for grey inverted spoons vs green birds like Star Trek. Cigars with hammerheads vs slightly different cigars with hammerheads is just fine.
2. In most scifi movies the battles are fought 10 metres apart between ships. This is done to get them in one frame and show the sparkling action.
This is also not necessary. If you look at submarine movies, such as Hunt for Red October and in my opinion the best one Das Boot, they do not usually show the opposing ship in one frame.
Tension and action can be generated without the ships being in viewing distance of each other and works very well. They show the actions of one ship and then the effect of these actions on the other. Personally, I believe that such submarine movie style action would be appropriate for the Honorverse.
This style lends itself well to the type of weapons the Honorverse has:
Missiles are visible and can be shown when fired and when they impact. The rest of the time they are shown on a plot, which the characters look at on the bridge.
Lasers, Grasers etc. are invisible in vacuum. A firing sequence can be shown as a glowing point on the hull. The beam itself would be invisible. Then the enemy ship is shown. When the beam passes through its side walls, it can become visible (just the end of it where it passes through them) and the impact.
That does not mean that there is no room for Honor to come straight at a battle cruiser in a cruiser, slice it in half and emerge victorious on the other side. But it should be kept at a certain realistic level.
I can't disagree with anything you've said, although I think the need for a clear visual differentiation between the various navies is probably greater than you seem to be implying. Your comments about the similarity between USN and IJN World War II warships are well taken, and, in fact, I've used exactly the same analogy with Evergreen. By the same token, if you put a last-generation USN battleship beside Yamato (or one of the earlier Japanese battleships refitted with the enormous "pagoda" masts) there are huge cosmetic differences. All of those differences are the result about different navies' decisions about how best to deal with the same problems — an example of the "form follows function" problem being solved in different ways — and that's basically what I'm hoping for at this point from Evergreen.
Your point about fighting ships not having to be on the same screen is also very well taken, and one that Evergreen and I have been discussing — and bearing in the front of our minds — from the beginning. It's not quite as simple as submarines fighting surface ships because in that instance the combatants are effectively in two separate combat media, but there are certainly ways to produce the tension and the sense of danger — and distance — without putting the combatants cheek-by-jowl the way Enterprise seems to be constantly finding herself vis-à-vis Klingons or Romulans or what-have-you. This is especially true given the range at which missile combat occurs in the Honorverse, and I think that the use of missiles rather than energy weapons will actually make that easier to accomplish.
As for your point about the invisibility of lasers and grasers, you're absolutely correct. However, I think it's going to be a lot harder to not have any "death race" flashing around the screen if/when Honorverse ships get into energy range of one another or the laser clusters opened fire against incoming missiles. It's not all simply move magic madness, either.
You guys are an informed, well educated, deeply interested audience. That, by the way, was the conclusion of the "fanothropy" Evergreen commissioned, a survey and analysis of existing Honorverse fans, their interests, educational level, and concerns about any attempt to bring the Honorverse to film. By and large, I think the guys who produced it pretty much nailed the target, and Evergreen has made it clear to me that they intend to pay a lot of attention to who and what existing Honorverse fans are and care about.
But because of who and what you are, you understand that lasers will be invisible in vacuum. A lot of movie viewers don't understand that, just as a majority of college juniors recently failed to identify Joe Biden as vice president of the United States. For them to make the connection between the active defenses and the disintegrating missile coming in on Fearless, they'll have to see the connection, and that means, I fear, that we will see lasers and grasers streaking across the screen. For that matter, you may even see ionized "wakes" following ships around at high rates of speed. When you do, I ask you to remember that you are not necessarily seeing them because the people making the move believe they'd actually be there. Sometimes, much as we all hate it — and as firmly as I've had to bite my own tongue on more than one occasion sitting in a movie theater — we're stuck with the visual clichés which have become science fiction movies' furniture. I promise that Evergreen and I will attempt to hold that sort of inanity to a minimum, but for the movie to be a financial success (thus hopefully paving the way for additional movies), some concessions are going to have to be made to the expectations (and, alas, sometimes ignorance) of an audience which extends far beyond the existing fan base.
I don't want you guys to get swelled heads, but the truth is that you tend to be better informed, better educated, and more discriminating, than 90% of the moviegoing public. Unfortunately, if we only sell tickets to 10% of the targeted moviegoing public, the picture will be a financial disaster.