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Back from LA with Honorverse move news

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by 61Cygni   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:25 am

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Scuffles wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:Prolong is going to be a problem and — at present — Evergreen is definitely planning on keeping it. Finding an actress in her 20s with the gravitas to play a starship captain in her mid-40s is going to be a nontrivial challenge. And it will also be a nontrivial challenge to do the number of movies they're hoping for without the aging of the characters becoming a factor. Like a lot of things in life, the best you can do is the best you can do, and that's what Evergreen intends to do. The very best they can.


Prolong was one of the other things I was wondering about for sure. It seems that you're going to have to find at least a handful of fairly young actors / actresses to get across the point of just how young some prolong recipients can look at times.


Prolong, especially the 3rd-gen variety, will indeed be one of the major issues. It might be best for it to be modified somewhat, "relax" the ages upward so the cast can be in their 20's and 30's and even 40's so it isn't quite so visually severe. Seriously, having ships crewed by adults who look like "a bunch of teenagers" is going to have credibility problems with the general masses. The fans of course will understand, but the uninitiated will most lkely think it to be silly, i.e. "teens in space". I applaud Evergreen for wanting to include prolong, but it might be one of those things that works far better in written form than a visual one.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by gamarus   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:27 am

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Hu, never thought of that: How far away can one distinguish a warhead detonation with the naked eye?


namelessfly wrote:I would suggest barrowing a very brief scene from Service of the Sword

Have a very young, Abigail Hearnes standing on the balcony of her house with her dater. They are watching as a Manticoran CA cammanded by a woman fights a BC twice her mass. The numerous, staccato fusion explosions visible to them (actually would not be given the range but I will eagerly concede Weber poetic license on this to convey the sense of imminent threat) inspire Abby to tell her Steadholder father that she wants to be a Naval Captain someday.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by kzt   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:38 pm

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gamarus wrote:Hu, never thought of that: How far away can one distinguish a warhead detonation with the naked eye?

That's a question for the resident astronomer.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Jeroswen   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:48 pm

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Hutch wrote:Just a couple of thoughts:

One, while like the rest I agree with the HotQ being a better choice, there is no reason they can't borrow something of the spirit of OBS--which was a new captain with a crew that could have gone either way (good or bad) and how they came together under her leadership (and it might not be a bad idea to start with McKeon as her exec, rather than Troubador's commander, to establish the dynamic from OBS). Just a thought.

Two, whoever plays the role and whatever the scriptwriter writes, I would recommend that they memorize these words from one Lieutenant Commander Samuel Houston Webster spoken in the SVW:

"In that case, Admiral, all I can say is that she's the best," he said finally. "We had some serious problems when they banished us to Basilisk, and the Captain— well, she dealt with them, Sir, and I never heard her raise her voice once while she did it. You know what Basilisk Station used to be like, and we weren't exactly the best crew anyone ever gave a captain, either. Not when we arrived. But, by God, Admiral, we were when we left!"

.....

"The Captain gets the best out of her people—sometimes more than they ever guessed they could give—and I don't really think it's anything she does. It's who she is, Sir. You trust her. You know she'll never let you down, and when the shit hits the fan, you know she'll get you out of it if anyone can. I'm a com officer, not a tac specialist, but I saw enough in Basilisk to realize how good she really is. I don't know if you've been briefed on just how BuShips butchered our armament, Admiral, but we were so far out of our league it was pitiful. We all knew that from the start, but the Captain took us in anyway. The Peeps smashed us into a wreck, Sir—three-quarters of our people were dead or wounded, but she kept right on coming, and somehow she took them out. I don't know if anyone else could have done it, but she did."

......

"We blamed her for getting us sent to Basilisk when we first arrived. It wasn't her fault, but that didn't change the way we felt, and it showed. But by the time it all broke loose, we would have followed her into Hell. In fact, I guess that's just about what we did . . . and we'd do it again."



Because that is the Honor I for one want to see portrayed.



In the spirit of a good debate I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Muddling with the story will have repercussions elsewhere if you do this. The ship and crew she has is because of what she went through at Basilisk. Giving her a fresh crew and moving McKeon around don't accomplish anything and then ruins a plot point later on when Troubadour is taken out by the Battlecruiser and she thinks McKeon has died.

I see what you are going for but that scene will be accomplished by the female lieutenant talking with Scotty Tremaine about her experiences with the Graysons. I don't have the textev handy to get an exact name but you remember the scene I am sure.

Anyway I would be against trying to mix the two stories. The story is great as it stands and enough references can be made to Basilisk, to fill in the gaps that need filling. As a great engineer once said "The more you overtink the valves the easier it is to stop up the drain."
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Dr. Arroway   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:55 pm

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About the prolong issue.
I think it could be a strong point if handled right. Because sure, the masses need to get what they expect and everything, but often we see even the "sure success recipes" fail, while surprising original movies go big.

What I'd do:

1. Yes, "relax" prolong a bit if needed, but remember that it can work both ways: you can declare more time has passed between each "installation" than what is stated in the books.

2. Go indeed for very young actors in the required roles. "We" need to be daring here. The issue can even be emphasized in the trailers (yes, I'm already thinking about trailers! :D ). After all, it's a key component in the relations with Grayson. There's an opportunity to let the audience feel the same bewilderment that the Grayson themselves are supposed to experience.
I'd call that a golden opportunity to bring the themes of the book on screen.

3. Pick a VERY young actress for Honor. Don't demand too much in terms of physical resemblance to the book "version". It's ultimately unimportant: it's Honor's soul that must be portrayed faithfully.
Of course, she can't be ugly, and if she's tall, all the better. But - at the end of day - we don't absolutely need her to have an Asian descent or anything else in particular.
Again, we need a leap of faith here: an unknown who can own the part would be the best option for me.

Anyway, VERY happy to see it moving, and to hear it'll start with HotQ. Actually I was hoping that would be the case ;)
Last edited by Dr. Arroway on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Star Knight   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:58 pm

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kzt wrote:
gamarus wrote:Hu, never thought of that: How far away can one distinguish a warhead detonation with the naked eye?

That's a question for the resident astronomer.

In universe, not really. Its mentioned in AoV that Abigail Hearns watched the Second Battle of Yeltsin from her fathers balcony.

Dr. Arroway wrote:About the prolong issue.
I think it could be a strong point if handled right. Because sure, the masses need to get what they expect and everything, but often we see even the "sure success recipes" fail, while surprising original movies go big.
Yes, finally someone who recognizes this.
Prolong is an aspect that can distinguish the movie from other space opera works.
You need something like that if you want to sell the audience on a kingdom fighting a republic over a bunch of crazy religious people twothousand years from now.
Luckily, apart from Star Wars and Star Trek, there isnt Happening much in the genre at the moment and this could actually do pretty well in the wake of especially Star Wars.

Anyway, using prolong doesnt doesnt necessarily mean putting 13 year olds on screen or something (just have prolong hit a little bit later) but go for late teens and early twenties. It will work, as long as its done seriously.
Look at the first new Star Trek movie. Young cast and lots of bs going on but they did make it work (movie was shite IMO but lets not go there). Starship Troopers (yes, i know the book was better)also got it right.
You want to jump on that bandwagon - young people doing serious military stuff isnt new but its still uncommon enough to rise interest.
Last edited by Star Knight on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Jeroswen   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:15 pm

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drothgery wrote:
hvb wrote:Grayson and Masada are US midwest, which would mean a large minority of blacks (~80% caucasian now, but by the time they form the colony effort that may well have declined somewhat), plus of course a bit of everything else.
Grayson is out of Idaho, which isn't US Midwest by any definition I've ever seen (and which is... umm... very, very white), though the only thing we know for sure is there are almost no ethnic east Asians ala Honor's Chou relatives.



I am from Idaho and the population is largely white. However we also have a very large hispanic population and a smaller representation of oriental and black populations. According to the last census we are 83.5% white, 11.5% hispanic, and then a sprinkling of the rest. The similarities I see between the Graysons and the people of this state are that both are very stubbornly self-reliant and conservative. Anyway we've kicked out the Neo-Nazi groups decades ago but its a scar we'll bare for a long time I'm afraid.

I just wanted to throw in my two cents since not many people know of this state.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Jeroswen   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:23 pm

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namelessfly wrote:I would suggest barrowing a very brief scene from Service of the Sword

Have a very young, Abigail Hearnes standing on the balcony of her house with her dater. They are watching as a Manticoran CA cammanded by a woman fights a BC twice her mass. The numerous, staccato fusion explosions visible to them (actually would not be given the range but I will eagerly concede Weber poetic license on this to convey the sense of imminent threat) inspire Abby to tell her Steadholder father that she wants to be a Naval Captain someday.


Actually instead of having to somehow make it so she can see the fight it would make more sense to do this. She is sitting down with your family watching the replay of Honor saving the Protector. Have her mention to her Dad that she would like to become a naval officer, her dad laughs and says "Sure like thats going to happen." and have her get upset and storm off telling her father "You watch me, I will..."

Having an adult daughter, more than a bit rebellious as a teen, who is now in the Navy I could relate to a scene like this.
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by Hutch   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:27 pm

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Jeroswen wrote:
Hutch wrote:Just a couple of thoughts:

One, while like the rest I agree with the HotQ being a better choice, there is no reason they can't borrow something of the spirit of OBS--which was a new captain with a crew that could have gone either way (good or bad) and how they came together under her leadership (and it might not be a bad idea to start with McKeon as her exec, rather than Troubador's commander, to establish the dynamic from OBS). Just a thought.



In the spirit of a good debate I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Muddling with the story will have repercussions elsewhere if you do this. The ship and crew she has is because of what she went through at Basilisk. Giving her a fresh crew and moving McKeon around don't accomplish anything and then ruins a plot point later on when Troubadour is taken out by the Battlecruiser and she thinks McKeon has died.

I see what you are going for but that scene will be accomplished by the female lieutenant talking with Scotty Tremaine about her experiences with the Graysons. I don't have the textev handy to get an exact name but you remember the scene I am sure.

Anyway I would be against trying to mix the two stories. The story is great as it stands and enough references can be made to Basilisk, to fill in the gaps that need filling. As a great engineer once said "The more you overtink the valves the easier it is to stop up the drain."



Well, in the spirit of good debate I think you're full of ..... :o ;) :D

You may be right and a lot of movies have been overthought in the past (good grief, what this bunch is likely to come up with in the next three years boggles the mind...). : :shock:

Still...adding that subplot (maybe with a veteran crew and a Commander who thought he would be getting command), subsitute the Houseman beatdown (w/McKeon present and claiming to have seen 'nothing') for Hauptman, followed by the scene from OBS, and Bob's your uncle. His command of the Troubador can be explained from the 'unexpected' death of her captain at the Battle of Blackbird.

But perhaps you're right--but since McKeon is a critical character right through AAC, establishing the dynamic between him and Honor seemed a worthy goal.

We shall see.
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What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Back from LA with Honorverse move news
Post by SWM   » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:51 pm

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kzt wrote:
gamarus wrote:Hu, never thought of that: How far away can one distinguish a warhead detonation with the naked eye?

That's a question for the resident astronomer.

Huh? What? Did I hear a call for an astronomer?

:lol:

Hm, fascinating question! I just did some quick searching, and couldn't find a straight answer (though it has been asked in various forms all over the 'net). I couldn't find an absolute brightness for the explosion, just the surface brightness. So it's time to do some calculations.

The surface brightness of the fireball when it is 13 meters diameter (100 microseconds into the explosion) is 10,000,000 times brighter than the sun. In comparison, the sun is 7.0e8 meters radius. Thus, the surface of the sun is 5.4e15 times greater than the fireball at this stage. The total brightness of the sun is 1.4e8 times the fireball. It drops off rapidly after this.

A factor of 100 is equivalent to 5 magnitudes in brightness. So the nuclear explosion is around 20 magnitudes fainter than the sun, in total brightness. The sun has an absolute magnitude of 5, so a nuclear explosion has an absolute magnitude of 25.

[have to break off here--I'll finished this shortly]
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