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Size of the Science Fiction market?

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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by MuonNeutrino   » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:35 pm

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roseandheather wrote:And for Star Wars, I have zero interest in the rest of the Expanded Universe but am seriously considering reading the Thrawn Trilogy because it is, apparently, just that damn good.

The Star Wars expanded universe stuff, in general, varies *wildly* in quality. The Thrawn trilogy is very good, especially because, as the very first expanded universe novels written, it didn't have to worry about dealing with a ton of pre-existing continuity. The (much later) Hand of Thrawn duology is also not bad, though bogs down a bit in terms of that same continuity bloat. Apart from those, I personally considered Stackpole and Allston's X-Wing books (and the related I, Jedi), while very different in tone than Zahn's, to also be quite good. On the other hand, most of the rest ranges from mediocre to utter dreck, and you're best off completely ignoring anything set in the New Jedi Order era or later when the setting goes *completely* off the rails.

Dafmeister wrote:Oh Lord, we're going to unleash R&H on the shipping possibilities of the Thrawn books? Talon Karrde? Mara Jade? Captain Pellaeon? Winter? Thrawn himself? This is going to get complicated...

Well, some of that was more or less done by later books, but yeah, that thought is a bit scary. :shock:
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by ericth   » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:19 pm

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Senior Chief wrote:
ericth wrote:I came across this link, which tracks paper book sales and either Sci Fi sells a ton more e-books than I had realized or the market segment is far smaller than I thought:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-t ... -2012.html


The most relevant line is ART ranked at #7
7. A Rising Thunder by David Weber. Baen Books. 25,348


The link is relevant for the year 2012 and is now THREE years out of date. How about posting links to a 2014 or 2015 bestsellers survey...

Yeah some of the authors are dead and buried and their books are still selling... perhaps their next-of-kin need some extra money and are pushing them or hopefully readers are rediscovering those authors... or even better yet the younger generation of today is now learning to read. Just a thought and thank you for starting this thread since it is interesting.


As SWM mentioned, I revived this thread when I came across Brandon Sanderson's current (2015) description of the general tiers of the book selling market.
When I first made this thread I commented that the sales number for ART seemed lower than I would have expected, and the consensus was the SciFi market was smaller than I thought it was. The numbers from Brandon fit nicely in with that discussion, hence the new post.
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by jchilds   » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:22 am

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Dafmeister wrote:
Annachie wrote:Read the Thrawn stuff. It is worth is.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


Oh Lord, we're going to unleash R&H on the shipping possibilities of the Thrawn books? Talon Karrde? Mara Jade? Captain Pellaeon? Winter? Thrawn himself? This is going to get complicated...


It that really a possibility in the near future? I haven't followed every thread of late, but I don't think I've seen R&H use "How the Safehold series won't end" post as an excuse to trans-ship across the Weberverse yet, so there's still a huge untapped resevoir of options available for Eloise...maybe Brandark? :lol:
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by svenhauke   » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:40 pm

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question

do sf readers use tech more then

other readers ?

im not buying, just reading

how do you calculate

people who are not noted by publishers ?
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by SWM   » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:45 pm

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svenhauke wrote:question

do sf readers use tech more then

other readers ?

im not buying, just reading

how do you calculate

people who are not noted by publishers ?

I'm not sure what you are asking.
"use tech more"? It is possible that SF readers are, on average, somewhat more prone to use technology, but there are an awful lot of people using technology out there who aren't SF readers. Think of how many people use cell phones and videogames.

And what do you mean "calculate people who are not noted by publishers"? Calculate for what? And what do you mean by not noted?
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:38 pm

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jchilds wrote:
Dafmeister wrote:Oh Lord, we're going to unleash R&H on the shipping possibilities of the Thrawn books? Talon Karrde? Mara Jade? Captain Pellaeon? Winter? Thrawn himself? This is going to get complicated...


It that really a possibility in the near future? I haven't followed every thread of late, but I don't think I've seen R&H use "How the Safehold series won't end" post as an excuse to trans-ship across the Weberverse yet, so there's still a huge untapped resevoir of options available for Eloise...maybe Brandark? :lol:

Pairing name "PritchDark"?
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by munroburton   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:54 am

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MuonNeutrino wrote:
roseandheather wrote:And for Star Wars, I have zero interest in the rest of the Expanded Universe but am seriously considering reading the Thrawn Trilogy because it is, apparently, just that damn good.

The Star Wars expanded universe stuff, in general, varies *wildly* in quality. The Thrawn trilogy is very good, especially because, as the very first expanded universe novels written, it didn't have to worry about dealing with a ton of pre-existing continuity. The (much later) Hand of Thrawn duology is also not bad, though bogs down a bit in terms of that same continuity bloat. Apart from those, I personally considered Stackpole and Allston's X-Wing books (and the related I, Jedi), while very different in tone than Zahn's, to also be quite good. On the other hand, most of the rest ranges from mediocre to utter dreck, and you're best off completely ignoring anything set in the New Jedi Order era or later when the setting goes *completely* off the rails.


Pretty much hits every target for the best SW EU books there - basically the best authors are Zahn, Allston, Stackpole, each with their own style. I'll just add that Allston also did a couple of NJO books which had me in tears of laughter, although you might need to have read at least the whole NJO series and the other mentioned books to get some of the best references.
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by roseandheather   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:09 pm

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jchilds wrote:
It that really a possibility in the near future? I haven't followed every thread of late, but I don't think I've seen R&H use "How the Safehold series won't end" post as an excuse to trans-ship across the Weberverse yet, so there's still a huge untapped resevoir of options available for Eloise...maybe Brandark? :lol:


Believe you me, you will know when I have finished Like A Mighty Army (currently on How Firm a Foundation) because I will descend upon that thread with all the fire of a thousand suns.

Also now I'm imagining Abigail Hearns marrying Maikel Staynair and it's your fault.

Also in the platonic sense I want to put Nahrmahn and Ohlyvya Baytz in the same room with Victor Cachat, Thandi Palane, Catherine Montaigne, and Anton Zilwicki just to watch the fireworks. Or with Elizabeth Winton, Eloise Pritchart, Estelle Matsuko, Thomas Theisman, and Honor Harrington. Or all of them at once...

...can John Chandler Simpson come join the party? David basically created him from the ground up, after all.
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by OrlandoNative   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:51 pm

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Spacekiwi wrote:Thats interesting to see how many sci fi books were sold in 2012. However, I wonder if that is worldwide, or just US sales? And I wonder what caused the 20% drop in sci fi sales in 2012? And where are the numbers for E-books?


I would say, being an old and die-hard science fiction fan, that a good bit of the "drop" in sales is simply because of a lack of really good authors. A large percentage of the "new" science fiction is crap, at best, at worst, something recycled - usually badly - from some similar story authored decades ago. I think, in some cases, this merely indicates a severe lack of imagination in many new authors; since similar story lines *can* be rejuvenated by adding unexpected plot twists, newly theorized future technology, or different imagined settings.

Look at David, for example. The Safehold series is doing quite well, and has a very loyal following, yet it is, in many ways, just a combination of a pinch of the Honorverse, a slightly larger bit of the Starfire one, and a large bit of the Dahak one; with a much more detailed (and, somewhat, drawn out) story line. Nothing entirely *NEW*; but recombining previous plot bits and pieces in a new way to create an entirely different - and interesting - universe.

Also, there's this mingling with "Fantasy". Much of the "Fantasy and Science Fiction" sections in most of the stores selling new (as opposed to used) books is truly "fantasy". No "science" to the story line at all. Witches, wizards, dragons, etc. No actual "technology". A lot of folks interested in science fiction are *technical* folks. We like some *science* there. Sure, there can be some magic or fantasy style creatures mixed in, but we're interested in hardware as well. That's why series like Andre Norton's "Witch World" or MZB's "Darkover" were so popular in their day. That's also why some of the "old, dead" authors books are still selling *well*.

As for tracking book sales, there's the problem that a book doesn't sell just *ONCE*, so trying to equate the "first sale" of a book with "market share" doesn't really work. There's a huge market in resale. Indeed, when it comes to mysteries, especially ones closer to the start of various author's series, my wife (who likes that genre) tends to find more of the books she buys at used book stores and consignment/thrift shops like Goodwill. At, I might add, at much more acceptable pricing. I don't know how many times I've heard "It's out of print" or "We can special order it" at the local Barnes and Noble. Great if you have #2-10 of a series but not #1, right?

And on the subject of ebooks, there's another can of worms - namely that "copies" of such works end up on p2p file shares almost as soon as they become available online, if not sooner. No doubt some of this is due to the (relatively) high cost of a ebook vs the actual cost to provide it; but I'm sure a good bit is simply the human penchant for wanting something for nothing.
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Re: Size of the Science Fiction market?
Post by OrlandoNative   » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:58 pm

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SWM wrote:There is some truth to the idea that media books bring fans into the market, including female fans. But it is also pushing other science fiction off the shelves. Look at the science fiction shelves in any bookstore. More than half of the shelf space is held by media books--hundreds of titles for Star Wars, Star Trek, Dungeons and Dragons, and various computer games. For the last year or two most of the remaining shelf space is dedicated to the vampire/werewolf/zombie books that are the latest fad. Those new fans coming into the market are not even seeing the full scope of science fiction because media books and the latest fad have pushed most of it off the bookshelves.


I don't know if I'd agree with that. There are at least 6 Barnes and Noble stores in the greater Orlando, FL area. I've been in most of them. In each of those, there have been at *most* 2 racks of "media books". The rest are all regular science fiction and fantasy. Of course, I'd say over HALF of THAT is pure fantasy, rather than any kind of science fiction. The dedicated percentage of space for the media titles is probably at most somewhere between 20-30%, depending on the store and the total rack count.

It's possible other locations around the country, and possibly other independent or chain stores, might be different, though.
"Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again."
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