Honerveres vs Trekies

Ok I have done the Dahak vs Deathstar thing. If you look on youtube you will see lots of Star Trek vs Star wars vids (Some are quite funny). So, back to the real question. War breaks out between the Honerverse and the Federation. Who wins?

You can even include the Solies against Trek. Might be fun to see how they stack up, especially against Klingon warbirds.

Luck

The trek universe with its fewer ships (except maybe the borg) would find themselves in serious problems in every combat but their superior sensors would allow them the avoid the HV ships

so we sould end up with a Benny Hill situation with the HV ships running around the galaxy after the ST ships

Hi Alex,

Kinda off topic but there is crossover fan fic, and one I really enjoyed was Honorverse meets Battlestar Galactica I provide the link to the first chapter:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7067382/1/Old_Warhorses

So if the writing bug bites you, you now know where to go to post and, as you note it would be interesting.

Poker

Alex wrote:Ok I have done the Dahak vs Deathstar thing. If you look on youtube you will see lots of Star Trek vs Star wars vids (Some are quite funny). So, back to the real question. War breaks out between the Honerverse and the Federation. Who wins?

You can even include the Solies against Trek. Might be fun to see how they stack up, especially against Klingon warbirds.

Luck

Alex wrote:Ok I have done the Dahak vs Deathstar thing. If you look on youtube you will see lots of Star Trek vs Star wars vids (Some are quite funny). So, back to the real question. War breaks out between the Honerverse and the Federation. Who wins?

You can even include the Solies against Trek. Might be fun to see how they stack up, especially against Klingon warbirds.

Luck

It would IMO depend on if a ship traveling at warp speeds is detectible by gravitic sensors, which in turn would be determined by the specifics of how warp drive works. Warp drive works by changing the shape of space, and is a FTL drive in normal space. Does the warp drive show up on gravitics, or does the warping of space hide the drive from gravitic sensors.

That said, forget the dramatazation of TV battles. IMO it is likely to be a stalemate. The Trek universe dosen't have the ships to hurt the honorverse, the honorvers dosen't have the manuverability to target a trek ship with sublight missiles that take minutes to reach a target, and a trek ship can go off at FTL speads in just a few seconds.

Speed:
Fairly advanced Star Trek ships can move at roughly 1000 times the speed of light under warp drive. Higher speeds are possible but very rare for non-Borg humanoid civilizations. Non-hyperspace speed is limited to less than 0.5 c.
Honorverse ships can reach 3000 times the speed of light in hyper. Higher speeds are possible but very rare. Non-hyperspace speed is limited to 0.8 c.
Adv: Honorverse


Firepower:
Typical Star Trek capital ships (i.e. Galaxy and Sovereign class for the Federation) have a dozen or so phaser arrays and can fire 3-4 quantum torpedoes at a time, at ranges up to 50-60 thousand kilometers for both systems. Energy levels per hit are on par with multimegaton warheads, consistent with ships less than half a kilometer in length.
Typical Honorverse capital ships have many dozens of energy mounts, with ranges of up to a million kilometers and can fire dozens to hundreds of missiles at a time at ranges up to millions of kilometers.
Adv: Honorverse


Defenses:
Star Trek ships use shaped energy shields that absorb energy and kinetic attacks. The shield is impenetrable for as long as it lasts - but each hit drops the shield's integrity until the shield collapses. Repeated energy weapon use burns through the shield and impacts at c-fractional velocities are a bad idea.
Star Trek ships only occasionally use point-defense due to energy combat being their primary method of fighting and their hulls are only a few hundred meters long at most, fairly thin and are studded with windows.
Honorverse ships use shaped gravity bands to form wedges and sidewalls. Wedges are impenetrable and very destructive to anything they touch. Sidewalls are impenetrable to physical attacks but sufficiently powerful energy weapons can penetrate them and deal damage beyond.
Honorverse ships use loads and loads of point-defense and massive armor - many are more than a kilometer long.
Adv: Honorverse


Communication:
Star Trek ships and civilizations in general are capable of FTL communication across entire clusters and capable of FTL sensors beyond just gravitic within the same star system.
Honorverse ships have very limited (in comparison) FTL ability and only their gravitic sensors are FTL.
Adv: Star Trek


Stealth:
Star Trek ships are capable of holograms, emission cloaking, visual cloaking and similar techniques.
Honorverse ships are capable of emission cloaking.
Adv: Star Trek


Numbers:
A dozen ships are a powerful force in Star Trek, a big deal. A major star nation can be expected to have only a few dozen to maybe a hundred capital ships in total. Also, they are expected to control dozens of systems but to have significant population centers and industry only in a few of them.
Honorverse armadas are made up of hundreds of ships. A major star nation can be expected to have thousands of ships in total, several hundred of which are capital ships. They are expected to control dozens of systems with populations in the billions, many of which are going to have significant industrial capacity.
Adv: Honorverse


Shenanigans:
Star Trek has teleportation, time-travel, reality bending, gravity alteration and many other phenomena that occur in a semi-frequent basis but are not (and due to randomness and/or drawbacks and limitations generally can't be) part of their standard tactics and force availability. However, they still offer a way out - Star Trek conflicts are more often resolved via such des ex machina than military capabilities.
Honorverse has the gravity lance. And that's it - there usually isn't any sort of shenanigans weaker forces can happen upon or otherwise produce to win over more powerful opponents.
Adv: Star Trek

darrell wrote:It would IMO depend on if a ship traveling at warp speeds is detectible by gravitic sensors, which in turn would be determined by the specifics of how warp drive works. Warp drive works by changing the shape of space, and is a FTL drive in normal space. Does the warp drive show up on gravitics, or does the warping of space hide the drive from gravitic sensors.

That said, forget the dramatazation of TV battles. IMO it is likely to be a stalemate. The Trek universe dosen't have the ships to hurt the honorverse, the honorvers dosen't have the manuverability to target a trek ship with sublight missiles that take minutes to reach a target, and a trek ship can go off at FTL speads in just a few seconds.

Good points. Maybe that stalemate would evolve into each side trying to cut the support out from under the other.

Star Trek ships can jump to warp and run away from Honorverse missile or graser fire, but their starbases and construction yards can't. Blow up enough of those and wait for Star Fleet to run out of fuel or break down.


On the other hand maybe it won't be a stalemate. Do sidewalls or wedges block transporters? It'd make for boring TV but beaming nukes or photon torpedoes inside Honorverse ships would make for short fights.

Star Trek can do hyperspace travel within a hyper limit. They can outrun and outmaneuver missiles.

Star Trek can transport a nuke into your engine room if you don't have "shields"

We don't know how powerful "shields" are, but they have encountered civilizations that were "how long can our shields absorb this load" with the answer "forever".

Comes down to mainly whether or not Honorverse energy weapons are strong enough to damage "shields" and whether or not the gravitic fields around honorverse ships interfere with transporters.

Since Star Trek ships have to get into energy range to do much of anything, it's a matter of whether automated response loops on Honorverse grasers can punch out a Trekkie ship as it pops into N-space before their energy weapons can punch out the Honorverse ship.

If the exchange rate is even close, then the superior numbers of the Honorverse ships matter.

I can't think of a single weapon in the Star Trek universe that would enable them to attack from outside of an Honorverse ship's energy range, so the ability of a Star Trek(ST) ship to avoid Honorverse(HV) missiles is a moot point.
If the ST ships close the distance, I think that HV weapons - grazers and heavy lasers - are more powerful than ST phasers and disruptors. HV capital ships are also much more heavily armored than anything in the ST universe... in fact, I would bet that the average HV Heavy Cruiser is at least as heavily armored as the strongest ST ships - and I also think that the sidewalls of an SD/DN/BC are stronger than the shields of a ST ship. I am basing this on the overall effects of the weapons - a ST phaser will cut into a ship, but grazers have been described as gouging deep into even heavily armored ships and causing a much greater amount of damage. (Yes, I have been a trekkie for many, many years; and have played both computer and board games based on the ST ships... sorry, they just aren't in the weight class of HV ships)

From a Heavy Cruiser on up, the HV ships simply out-weigh and out-armor anything that the ST universe can send out... and I think even 'modern' HV DDs and CLs could hold their own in a fairly even numbered fight.

Renegade13 wrote:I can't think of a single weapon in the Star Trek universe that would enable them to attack from outside of an Honorverse ship's energy range, so the ability of a Star Trek(ST) ship to avoid Honorverse(HV) missiles is a moot point.
If the ST ships close the distance, I think that HV weapons - grazers and heavy lasers - are more powerful than ST phasers and disruptors. HV capital ships are also much more heavily armored than anything in the ST universe... in fact, I would bet that the average HV Heavy Cruiser is at least as heavily armored as the strongest ST ships - and I also think that the sidewalls of an SD/DN/BC are stronger than the shields of a ST ship. I am basing this on the overall effects of the weapons - a ST phaser will cut into a ship, but grazers have been described as gouging deep into even heavily armored ships and causing a much greater amount of damage. (Yes, I have been a trekkie for many, many years; and have played both computer and board games based on the ST ships... sorry, they just aren't in the weight class of HV ships)

From a Heavy Cruiser on up, the HV ships simply out-weigh and out-armor anything that the ST universe can send out... and I think even 'modern' HV DDs and CLs could hold their own in a fairly even numbered fight.

The star trek ship can close from outside the honorverse ship range to 2MKM at faster than light speeds. It will than have more than a minute attack with torpedo's before the honrverse missiles get close. When the missiles get close, go back to warp for a second, move to the other side of the ship, and start firing more torpedos. the Star trek ship can keep it up indefinatly, and never get hurt.

Belial666 wrote:Speed:
Fairly advanced Star Trek ships can move at roughly 1000 times the speed of light under warp drive. Higher speeds are possible but very rare for non-Borg humanoid civilizations. Non-hyperspace speed is limited to less than 0.5 c.
Honorverse ships can reach 3000 times the speed of light in hyper. Higher speeds are possible but very rare. Non-hyperspace speed is limited to 0.8 c.
Adv: Honorverse

Star trek does not use hyperspace and can manuver at faster than light speeds in combat. Although they take longer to go from system to system, FTL combat speds for Trek ships is faster than sublight speeds for honorverse ships. Speed advantage, Star trek.

Minor note: IIRC Star trek subspace communications propogates at warp 36, which would be 46,000 times light speed.