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Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?

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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:26 pm

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Without FTL I'd expect you'd just take over a planet.
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:04 pm

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kzt wrote:Without FTL I'd expect you'd just take over a planet.

Yes, but you are not a pirate, you are a colonist. The only claim-jumping of planets occurred after FTL passenger travel became real.
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:13 pm

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tlb wrote:Yes, but you are not a pirate, you are a colonist. The only claim-jumping of planets occurred after FTL passenger travel became real.

Well, installing yourself at the top of an existing society by force isn't 'exactly' colonization. It's another word that begins with 'C'.
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:40 pm

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kzt wrote:Without FTL I'd expect you'd just take over a planet.

tlb wrote:Yes, but you are not a pirate, you are a colonist. The only claim-jumping of planets occurred after FTL passenger travel became real.

kzt wrote:Well, installing yourself at the top of an existing society by force isn't 'exactly' colonization. It's another word that begins with 'C'.

Yes, but the point is that NONE of that happened until FTL travel was available to the masses.

With FTL travel it is possible to arrive at a planet before the colony ship or move from an ill-adapted planet to a better one. In the days of the colony ships, each ship went to the planet where they had bought the rights from one of the survey companies.
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:43 pm

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tlb wrote:
With FTL travel it is possible to arrive at a planet before the colony ship or move from an ill-adapted planet to a better one. In the days of the colony ships, each ship went to the planet where they had bought the rights from one of the survey companies.

That seems like a lot of work. How about we arrive a hundred years after the colonists arrive and just take over?
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:02 pm

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tlb wrote:With FTL travel it is possible to arrive at a planet before the colony ship or move from an ill-adapted planet to a better one. In the days of the colony ships, each ship went to the planet where they had bought the rights from one of the survey companies.

kzt wrote:That seems like a lot of work. How about we arrive a hundred years after the colonists arrive and just take over?

Go ahead, if you want to do so. But your initial point was about what was done in the days before FTL travel. I will continue to insist that these exploits occurred ONLY AFTER FTL travel was available.

Can you point to an example of this happening with sub-light speed ships?
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Re: Did haven inspire Manticore's stealth recon drones?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:55 pm

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kzt wrote:That seems like a lot of work. How about we arrive a hundred years after the colonists arrive and just take over?


You don't know what you're going to find. They may have all died or have left because of natural disasters or plagues. If you arrive at a system where someone was and isn't any more, you really don't want to stay either.

Or they may have some defences, enough to take on your ship. Especially if you're coming on sub-light, because they'll have seen you come for years. Assuming the ship can produce half a gravity of acceleration, to decelerate down from 0.2c to a relative stop takes 142 days (impellers were invented in 1246 PD and inertial compensators in 1384). It doesn't take much for a society that arrived on a colony ship to produce a mass driver and shoot the incoming bogey. A few cutters wit lasers (an LAC by another name) may be enough to dissuade the incoming pirate.

They may also oppose landing, with surface-to-orbit guns. If you've come to take over the place, you probably want the infrastructure and not wreck the place. And the people: if you're a warlord, you probably don't have the population in stasis to repopulate.

So maybe you send a sublight warship along your colony ship. The warship decelerates later and harder, kills off most of the population on the planet, then the colony ship arrives and repopulates. But see detection above.
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