Coordinates for wormhole termini needed

Hey boys and girls,

I'm working on a map feature (for a honorverse browser game) and currently I'm tring to display wormholes.

There are some described in the fandom, but unfortunately there are no points on a map for all of the termini.
For example, I'm missing Yildun, Visigoth and all the other "new" termini and junctions.

I tried to generating the specific coordinates by placing circles over the map, e.g. "40 lightyears from X and 16 Lightyears from Y" should provide an intersection. Unfortunately the meaning of "1 lightyear" differs on different point at the map

In the past, I tooked the coordinates pixel by pixel from multiple maps and this works fine but some systems (Visigoth ...) are just missing.

Do we have more detailed sources for map-related stuff somewhere or has someone figured out, where it would be a good place for all the missing systems?
It would be great to get some help for this project

As example for the map:

Manticore-centered map

And for playing around with the colors and systems to center: Map manager

cya,
bfh

Does the below work for you? Scale is 609px/100ly.

I'm missing the info for Yildun and Templar though, haven't seen a starmap with them featured.

I should add that the placements of Mesa, Visigoth and Calvin's Hope are speculative and derived from distances to other systems mentioned in books/infodumps.

BattleForHonor wrote:Hey boys and girls,

I'm working on a map feature (for a honorverse browser game) and currently I'm tring to display wormholes.

If you don’t have a license for this it will go poorly. If you do have a license you should have access to the data. So don’t invest too much in this if you haven’t talked about a license with whoever is handling this for David these days.

EVERYONE has wanted a map from DW... I think EVERYONE on these forums at one point or another has tried making their own map as well... I have I admit.

I do not think one exists and never has as the original "map", DW has admitted he drew on the spot when the editors wanted one for his original books. HE has said he has looked into a map since then but we have multiple conflicting problem... 3d on 2d paper does not translate. Not to mention hyper time problems, grav wave problems and what is printed in the books. I think he just added hyperspace travel times and grav wave accelerations at his own whim for plot reasons just like has done regarding missile tech etc... plot plot plot and why MOST of us LOVE his books. His writing style is PLOT heavy and main character development heavy. Yes, things "hold together" but not if one starts really looking at a "map" which.... does not exist and never has.

The map you reference is NOT from DW it is fan drawn.

I think Bu9 and DW really tried hard to make such a map for House of Steel, but nothing happened so I expect there to be a "better" map created, but never published. Most of the new termini were published AFTER House of Steel was published as well or at least ~congruently so... I believe the intention was there. The forums at the time were filled with such posts about said hopefully anticipated map.

We also have multiple other problems with the WH termini which supposedly do not touch SL space except ~2-->4? of them yet SL is utterly dependent upon these other termini... go figure. This is llike Bolivia saying its economics are tied to the Malacca straights... Uh??? Those problems and the termini 3d placement lead to massive economic inconsistencies and have frankly been talked about to death and all have to do with the poor economic model of the books. No, I will not rehash it here as frankly it does not make sense and frankly it should not make sense as this is space opera not a economic treatise on theoretical interstellar civilizations.

If you are trying to make a game based on HV... you will be at minimum getting a cease and desist letter from DW to stop.

PS: Welcome to the forum. We need new blood, but frankly this now almost 30 year old series is effectively finished so the only people left are those who have been discussing his books for 20 years...

PPS: thefifthimperium.com is also your friend for posts collected over the years from DW. Though almost ALL recent posts by DW for last ~5 years have not really been collected when discussing his works. A few have, but not many.

Relax wrote:EVERYONE has wanted a map from DW... I think EVERYONE on these forums at one point or another has tried making their own map as well... I have I admit.

I do not think one exists and never has as the original "map", DW has admitted he drew on the spot when the editors wanted one for his original books. HE has said he has looked into a map since then but we have multiple conflicting problem... 3d on 2d paper does not translate. Not to mention hyper time problems, grav wave problems and what is printed in the books. I think he just added hyperspace travel times and grav wave accelerations at his own whim for plot reasons just like has done regarding missile tech etc... plot plot plot and why MOST of us LOVE his books. His writing style is PLOT heavy and main character development heavy. Yes, things "hold together" but not if one starts really looking at a "map" which.... does not exist and never has.

<snip>

Adding to the above.

We know the Honorverse star chart is at least 40ish light year thick. The SITS 2 setting book (~1900-1905 Silesia) has a starmap which shows all the major stars in the confederacy, and shows their heights above and below the 2D map - none are very far, but some cans be perceived to be 10+ light years off the 2D floor (The map is tilted at a perceived angle and no distance legend is given for it). So given a distance of 10 ly between stars, does not help in determining the star's 2D coordinates, especially since the 3d coordinate can be 10 ly or more from the plane.

No coordinates for stars have ever been given, only the occasional distance and (usually) travel times, which again is an issue. In a perfect example, in the book SoS, Helen is asked to set a course, while Midding as a navigator - the course she finds which is optimal involves (iirc) a side track to avoid a grav wave going in the wrong direction, and time at lower hyper bands to avoid spatial interference. In other words, we cannot say how long an "As the crow flies" distance is from travel times, even if we know the travel distance, the travel time, and the top speeds of the ship involved - simply, you never know if the ship traveled in a straight line at it's maximum velocity - or not.

Good morning,

thanks for all the input, your replies contain some things to think about.

But lets get directly to the map stuff.
Yeah I know this specific map and many others - the same maps as you, I guess.
There are a lot of differences, for example in the "wikipedia map", Mesa is placed much more in the south of Saltash than in the HM_FULL-Map.

I found maps which are placing Sasebo where Joshua is placed and so on.

And yeah, I tried to triangulate the systems and wormholes which are only depited by "distance from X and distance from Y" on my 2D map but the distances are completely broken.
Depending from the first occurrecne of the system at the honorverse-timeline the scale for a single lightyear differs from "really a single lightyear" to nearly 7 ly.

But then I will just ignore all the unknown stuff until I want to take me the time to place them on my own somewhere, where it seems to be logically (in a way).

And unfortunately I missed the time to buy the Saganami TacSim. I can't find it anywhere

cya,
bfh

There are some older threads here that discusses maps. See here for example: http://davidweber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7340

As mentioned, there is no "true" map - all maps are based on different printed maps (which have different scales and are sometimes of the type "tourist map") and textev.

Yeah I know the linked map and also your project

And sadly yes, a "real" map is missing.
But nevertheless, I want to achive two things. First of all a mostly-canon map to enrich the fandom wiki with some visibile and interactive map feature - this is the base idea behind it.
And the latter is to have some kind of "recognition value" (is this a real english word?) for the game.

Probably the first can be supported the second, but we will see.


But the other topic bothers me a lot: Is bean books or DW kind of a keeper of the honorverse or why was the first answer "without a license it will vanished"?

cya,
bfh

BattleForHonor wrote:But the other topic bothers me a lot: Is bean books or DW kind of a keeper of the honorverse or why was the first answer "without a license it will vanished"?

I knew people who had licenses for Honorverse stuff and they were with David, not Baen. (Or David’s people, not sure exactly who did the deal before it went to David.) David also got sent the proposed release and had the power to deny publication until he was happy.

If you put out something that is making money off his work without an agreement you’ll get legal paperwork in the mail telling you to stop. So don’t get too far into something major or that you hope to charge for without discussing it him or his agent.