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Spoiler for "What Price Victory"

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Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:12 am

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Traitor said

Though if he wanted to get really technical, it was Großadmiral Jennifer von Tischendorf von Tischendorf. Gustav Anderman had always been amused by their family name, not just because of how incredibly German it was, but also because the “von” part made it sound like a relic of nobility from pre-Diaspora days. A few years ago, when Gustav started really leaning into his obsession with the Old Prussian leader Frederick the Great and began handing out titles and lordships, he’d decided to double down on the von Tischendorf name and also make it their title.


What noble rank did Gustav grant Jennifer von Tischendorf? Surely more than Freifrau, but not Herzogin. Most likely, she would have been a Grafin. Discuss?
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:24 am

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Since I have a Spoiler already open for What Price Victory, I'll add this from the chain, "How does Honor Know So Much".

tlb wrote:

And we know that her mother's side were mainly doctors on Beowulf. However the uncle was someone important in the Beowulf System-Defense Force.


Fox2! wrote:
Jacque Benton-Ramirez y Chou was an officer in the Beowulf Biological Survey Corps (BSC), which was not part of the Beowulf SDF. BSC was a special operations force primarily devoted to taking down Manpower and other manifestations of genetic slavery.


In First Victory, we learn that Major Uncle Jacques was severely wounded during a BSC assault on a Manpower installation in the Pankowski system. By the time of Uncompromising Honor, Jacques is "retired" from the BSC and "working" for the Foreign Ministry.
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:59 pm

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Fox2! wrote:In First Victory, we learn that Major Uncle Jacques was severely wounded during a BSC assault on a Manpower installation in the Pankowski system. By the time of Uncompromising Honor, Jacques is "retired" from the BSC and "working" for the Foreign Ministry.

I was thinking that there were two possibilities suggested by the short story "Beauty and the Beast": one was his involvement in stopping an assassination attempt on Earth at New Denver and the other was an attack on a Haswell slave depot when he was a Lieutenant. Note that in the short story he is a Captain.

But it cannot be either of them if he is a Major, meaning that it occurred after the short story BatB. So why is it called a "First Victory", if he already had the two victories which led to his sister's kidnapping (and his involvement in settling that, might even count as a third victory)?
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:38 pm

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tlb wrote:
Fox2! wrote:In First Victory, we learn that Major Uncle Jacques was severely wounded during a BSC assault on a Manpower installation in the Pankowski system. By the time of Uncompromising Honor, Jacques is "retired" from the BSC and "working" for the Foreign Ministry.

I was thinking that there were two possibilities suggested by the short story "Beauty and the Beast": one was his involvement in stopping an assassination attempt on Earth at New Denver and the other was an attack on a Haswell slave depot when he was a Lieutenant. Note that in the short story he is a Captain.

But it cannot be either of them if he is a Major, meaning that it occurred after the short story BatB. So why is it called a "First Victory", if he already had the two victories which led to his sister's kidnapping (and his involvement in settling that, might even count as a third victory)?


First Victory definitely takes place after Beauty and the Beast. The question is, whose first victory is it? There is a hint in To End in Fire
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:03 pm

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Fox2! wrote:First Victory definitely takes place after Beauty and the Beast. The question is, whose first victory is it? There is a hint in To End in Fire

Saw this in the thread about the E-ARC being out:
cnrd22 wrote:Got the e-arc and scanned the stories - the one by DW starts with Allison's mother highly disapproving (in talking to her son Jacques) of her daughter's choice to move in with Lieutenant Harrington and go to live on an obscure planet where winter lasts over a year...

There is a story set in Silesia post annexation - starts during the second Havenite war (by Jan Kotouc who incidentally has a fine space opera Central Imperium in 4 volumes starting with Frontiers of the Imperium available in English) and another set on Grayson in 1922 PD (Joelle Presby) with, of course, a Stephanie one from Jane Lindskold
So unless the short story does a jump of several decades, the hint in TEiF has to be a historical tidbit
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:57 am

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tlb wrote:So unless the short story does a jump of several decades, the hint in TEiF has to be a historical tidbit


Yes.

It might be considered reflexive to the scenario in First Victory. :lol:
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by Theemile   » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:08 am

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Fox2! wrote:
First Victory definitely takes place after Beauty and the Beast. The question is, whose first victory is it? There is a hint in To End in Fire


It was Honor's first victory - overcoming the anger between her Mother and Grandmother and healing the family. Her father calls it so in response to Honor's worry that she might not be up to command a starship.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by tlb   » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:48 am

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Fox2! wrote:First Victory definitely takes place after Beauty and the Beast. The question is, whose first victory is it? There is a hint in To End in Fire

Theemile wrote:It was Honor's first victory - overcoming the anger between her Mother and Grandmother and healing the family. Her father calls it so in response to Honor's worry that she might not be up to command a starship.

If so, that seems disappointing and I fail to see the connection between solving a family crisis and commanding a starship. Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:19 am

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tlb wrote:
Fox2! wrote:First Victory definitely takes place after Beauty and the Beast. The question is, whose first victory is it? There is a hint in To End in Fire

Theemile wrote:It was Honor's first victory - overcoming the anger between her Mother and Grandmother and healing the family. Her father calls it so in response to Honor's worry that she might not be up to command a starship.

If so, that seems disappointing and I fail to see the connection between solving a family crisis and commanding a starship. Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.

A warship is a family. Think Fearless and the original problems Honor had to solve with her crew when she first assumed command. She did it rather ingeniously, and quite different from what I imagine any other officer would have done. The way she handled the dissention aboard Fearless endeared those officers to her command for life. And each of them would follow her to hell and back. Some of them did.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Spoiler for "What Price Victory"
Post by tlb   » Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:42 am

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tlb wrote:Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.

cthia wrote:A warship is a family. Think Fearless and the original problems Honor had to solve with her crew when she first assumed command. She did it rather ingeniously, and quite different from what I imagine any other officer would have done. The way she handled the dissention aboard Fearless endeared those officers to her command for life. And each of them would follow her to hell and back. Some of them did.

I have admitted that handling relationships is PART of the job of command and I will agree that she did an excellent job in OBS. BUT, all that would have been for nothing, if her other skills had not allowed her to realize what was going to happen and take appropriate action to prevent it; including successfully taking her ship to fight against a heavier opponent. What you are praising will help get the ship to the fight, but other talents are still needed to win.
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