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HMLAC 113

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HMLAC 113
Post by cthia   » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:47 pm

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Neobarbs

I think about the little engine that could, if the engine that could shuck wood would have Honor.


There simply has to be something interesting Honor could have gotten herself into in-system or outsystem in a LAC.

Maybe Honor caught a belligerent SL SD in-system with its pants down, threatening to blow it out of space.

"Sir, your blustering is all fine, but your wedges are down and I am parked right up your keester. This LAC will make you LACtose intolerant."

Could HMLAC 113 have taken out an SD with wedges down?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by cthia   » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:53 pm

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Because even in one of those earlier style LACs Honor would have taken her duty seriously.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by tlb   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:05 am

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Before Honor Among Enemies, so far as I know, every Manticoran LAC was carried as cargo to whatever system it was assigned. Because there was no LAC carrier, every RMN LAC operated in defense of friendly systems. So what circumstance do you imagine would cause an enemy SD to go to a system patrolled by a LAC operated by the Manticoran Navy and then drop its wedge and sidewalls?

Theoretically I suppose the LAC could cause damage, we have one instance of this when the Masadan LACs were transported to Yeltsin in The Honor of the Queen.
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:24 am

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tlb wrote:Before Honor Among Enemies, so far as I know, every Manticoran LAC was carried as cargo to whatever system it was assigned. Because there was no LAC carrier, every RMN LAC operated in defense of friendly systems. So what circumstance do you imagine would cause an enemy SD to go to a system patrolled by a LAC operated by the Manticoran Navy and then drop its wedge and sidewalls?

Theoretically I suppose the LAC could cause damage, we have one instance of this when the Masadan LACs were transported to Yeltsin in The Honor of the Queen.


The Series 248 Highlander LACs had four box launchers, each with 6 Mk 26 missiles in them, and each facing had 1 12cm laser.

So it can fire a max of 24 missiles, and the lasers are... small. Manty destroyers from the era carried 60 cm and 70 cm lasers, so the laser probably is a magnitude of power lower than a Destroyer laser.

24 missiles will not saturate an SD's defenses, so chances are they will not penetrate in a usable # unless the defenses are also down/degraded. SDs are designed to take hundreds of laser head hits, so against an SD with no wedge/sidewalls, a missile in Boom mode (big contact nuke) will do the most damage - if it hits, that is.

The 12 cm lasers will do some damage to the unprotected dorsal and ventral surfaces, but all you'll be able to do is damage the exposed hardware - the internal armoring will probably stop such a small laser from deeply penetrating (and limit what damage was done.

Overall, I would say mission kill - ehhhh... possibly, under insanely improbable conditions; kill - NNOOOO, unless you catch the SD with every system offline - in which case a well motivated boy scout troop working on their nuclear warfare merit badge could do it in your place.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:07 am

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tlb wrote:Before Honor Among Enemies, so far as I know, every Manticoran LAC was carried as cargo to whatever system it was assigned. Because there was no LAC carrier, every RMN LAC operated in defense of friendly systems. So what circumstance do you imagine would cause an enemy SD to go to a system patrolled by a LAC operated by the Manticoran Navy and then drop its wedge and sidewalls?

Theoretically I suppose the LAC could cause damage, we have one instance of this when the Masadan LACs were transported to Yeltsin in The Honor of the Queen.

And AFAIK all of them were assigned to either Manticore A or Manticore B. The only other territory Manticore claimed was Basilisk Station and there weren't any LACs there.

So all the old LACs seem to have been an adjunct to Home Fleet.



Honor might have been able to do something impressive while in command of the HM LAC 113; but it'd be more along the lines of being in the right place to assist a ship in distress. It wouldn't have been combat (outside of a fleet games exercise or simulation) because we know no combat occurred in the Manticoran home system during that period and AFAWK no old-style LAC was ever deployed elsewhere.

And whatever it is has to have been minor enough that it's reasonable that it's never been mentioned in the books when her other past exploits have been brought up. (If she'd disabled a hostile SD that absolutely would have been mentioned all the time as part of her legend)



For example we knew in OBS that she'd earned a Monarch's Thanks "saving lives when HMS Manticore's forward power room exploded"; and in SVW she'd been mentioned in dispatches after "the Attica Avalanche hit Gryphon in 275" -- and it was much later we actually got the short story of the later.

And we haven't gotten the story of the former. Now, I'd assumed that she'd earned that Monarch's Thanks when she was serving on HMS Manticore. But I guess it's theoretically possible that her LAC somehow rendered sufficient assistance that she earned that Thanks for bringing it to the assistance of the SD. Mind you, given the medical facilities and manpower of an SD (and lack of same on a LAC) I'm not sure how a LAC commander could have been of sufficient life saving assistance to earn a Thanks -- much more plausible for the SD's own ATO (or 2nd ATO) to have distinguished themselves assisting.

But more likely her time commanding HM LAC 113 was relatively boring, as the RM's LAC simply patrolled the home systems under close control of higher command.
Last edited by Jonathan_S on Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:00 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:<snip>
For example we knew in OBS that she'd earned a Monarch's Thanks "saving lives when HMS Manticore's forward power room exploded"; and mentioned in dispatches after "the Attica Avalanche hit Gryphon in 275" -- and it was much later we actually got the short story of the later.

And we haven't gotten the story of the former. Now, I'd assumed that she'd earned that Monarch's Thanks when she was serving on HMS Manticore. But I guess it's theoretically possible that her LAC somehow rendered sufficient assistance that she earned that Thanks for bringing it to the assistance of the SD. Mind you, given the medical facilities and manpower of an SD (and lack of same on a LAC) I'm not sure how a LAC commander could have been of sufficient life saving assistance to earn a Thanks -- much more plausible for the SD's own ATO (or 2nd ATO) to have distinguished themselves assisting.

But more likely her time commanding HM LAC 113 was relatively boring, as the RM's LAC simply patrolled the home systems under close control of higher command.



according to her Jayne's bio, she had the LAC 113 from 5/12/272 through 3/10/273, when she became XO or HMC Trenchant (CL-19) - during that stretch, she became a Lt. Commander on 2/35/273. The only award mentioned in that stretch was a "Fleet Excellence Award: Gunnery" in 273, but not the ship it was achieved on - chances are it was the Trenchant, though.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by munroburton   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:42 pm

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cthia wrote:Could HMLAC 113 have taken out an SD with wedges down?


Sure. Any ship with its wedge down should be completely vulnerable to being rammed by something else's wedge.

In hindsight, I'm puzzled why we've never actually seen it happen. The MacGregor raid, for example, could have seen the entire Peep force minus their ready screen destroyed by the LACs simply driving through them, preserving all their weapons for use against that screen. Same again at Grendelsbane. Higgins nuked the unfinished ships there instead of mowing impeller wedges through everything.
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:50 pm

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Theemile wrote:Overall, I would say mission kill - ehhhh... possibly, under insanely improbable conditions; kill - NNOOOO, unless you catch the SD with every system offline - in which case a well motivated boy scout troop working on their nuclear warfare merit badge could do it in your place.


A polite enemy that comes to your home system and promptly surrenders.
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:19 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Theemile wrote:Overall, I would say mission kill - ehhhh... possibly, under insanely improbable conditions; kill - NNOOOO, unless you catch the SD with every system offline - in which case a well motivated boy scout troop working on their nuclear warfare merit badge could do it in your place.


A polite enemy that comes to your home system and promptly surrenders.


I always prefer a polite enemy... they are so cooperative with my plans. The impolite ones are always finding ways to poke holes in them. Just rude - so very, very rude.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HMLAC 113
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:57 pm

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cthia wrote:Maybe Honor caught a belligerent SL SD in-system with its pants down, threatening to blow it out of space.

In addition to RMN LACs not getting deployed out of their home system, the SLN hasn't sent an SD outside its territory in centuries. (Not that anybody sends a single SD somewhere)

There's just no way Honor's HMLAC 113 and an SL SD were ever within 50 LY of each other; much less in the same system.
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