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SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!

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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:57 pm

cthia
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Brigade XO wrote:Streak Drive has been used quite a bit. We have just seen that Jessyk has at least a few running via Warner (which seems to be the preferred point closest to the Darius wormhole). It was probably used in the ship out of Darius to deliver the Silver Bullet weapons to the freighter taking them to Beowulf. Aldona Anisimovna seems to be using one to do her running around in Talbot. Harahap/Firebrand certainly noticed he has very speedy transport from Mesa to his 1st round of assignments for the Alignment. So, Streak Drive in the equivalent of large private yachts, freighters, probably couriers (if not just Dispatch Boats).

Simoes was not alone in his research on Streak Drives and improvements. He worked in a lab full of people and it would be reasonable that they were all working on some segment of Streak Drive advancement. We have at least one view of the difficulty his problems caused by the culling of his daughter made with the people he had to work with and he was being kept -barely- making progress because Jack was his minder in keeping him working. The Alignment NEEDED whatever they could squeeze out of him. Clearly he was not going out with Houdini by that point but prior to that it is reasonable that he and most if not all of the people in that lab would have been on the Houdini list. That being said, it is unlikely they would have been sent to Galton if it was as important as the pushing Simoes would seem to indicate.

I don't remember if the ship that too Albrect Detweiler to the meeting with the heads of the RF was a Streak but given the time that round trip took out of Albrect's work, it probably was.

There are only two major ways someone is going to identify a Streak Drive ship based on what we have been told. One is for a physical inspection by knowledgeable people from the inside of a ship- like the propulsion equipment etc- and what Zilwicki and friends have done with data collection and noting "someting odd" about the clearly regular round trip runs of various ships. So the Alignment doesn't want anybody's naval people looking at the physical engineering on these ships and you don't want Customs Inspectors and Engineers taking a look either. Nobody goes on these ships not allowed and the crews don't get off. Their passengers can but that is controlled. Nobody at Mesa was going to pull an inspection of a Jessyk ship and as long as a private or commercial ship- in most systems- wasn't hooking up to a station but only transferring cargo and people by shuttle there would be no reason to invoke customs regulations. You could probably go right though the Manticore Junction of the ship was not stopping at the Junction or at any terminus it used with the Junction.

If Streak Drive isn't used in normal space then someone would have to catch a look in hyperspace and the chances of that are really low as someone eating to do that would have to get to the band(s) the Streak was using and there is the challange of knowing which way the ship went once it translated out.



Of course, nobody is ever going to get a close inspection of one.


From the humor thread ...

cthia wrote:MA: Streak Boat 999
Code Name: Witch on her Stick


I admit film is responsible for a lot of my baggage.

Can you imagine Albrecht Detweiler's personal Streak Boat having this exact same Josey Wale's moment?

IOW, Albrecht Detweiler does his best Josey Wales impression. . .


OUTLAW JOSEY WALES

"Ahh! Un huh! Looka here boys. We done caught ourselves. . . Josey Wales!"

"Is that her Bubba? Is that Miss greased lighnin' herself?"

"Yep, she is! You better watch her though, I hear she's real fast."

"Why don't you just ease that pistol right on out a mite slow, butt first. . . that's right. . .that's right."

"Oh shit, that's a graser!"

"BOOM!"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:34 pm

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Theemile wrote:But the Malign had no idea that the streak was penetrated until Simoes turned up alive in mid-2021. Prior to Simoes, the knowledge of the Spider drive (or just an invisible drive system) was at a higher risk of detection than that of the Streak. As I mentioned before, you can't determine if a ship has a streak drive unless you watch one using the streak drive. So the risk of one being discovered was much, much lower than a ship with a completely alien drive system, even if it is almost invisible. A sensor or a ship lying doggo could accidently see the spider ship's interaction with something else (opening the door to kick out a drone, or replenishing from a freighter), and then the knowledge is out there. And, of course, once one is used in the most heavily guarded system in the universe, well....

As for the timeline, Simoes and the Manty reports of invisible attackers were in the same rough timeframe, so the time to backpedal on one tech is about the same as the other.

So why would either be placed


I'm not disputing any of that. In fact, I'm agreeing with you and with Brigade's argument of its relevance. The MAlign may not have moved to place the streak drive people and hardware on Galton prior to Simões' defection.

But if they didn't before, they couldn't have done so after, because there wasn't time.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:11 pm

tlb
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Brigade XO wrote:There are only two major ways someone is going to identify a Streak Drive ship based on what we have been told. One is for a physical inspection by knowledgeable people from the inside of a ship- like the propulsion equipment etc- and what Zilwicki and friends have done with data collection and noting "someting odd" about the clearly regular round trip runs of various ships. So the Alignment doesn't want anybody's naval people looking at the physical engineering on these ships and you don't want Customs Inspectors and Engineers taking a look either. Nobody goes on these ships not allowed and the crews don't get off. Their passengers can but that is controlled. Nobody at Mesa was going to pull an inspection of a Jessyk ship and as long as a private or commercial ship- in most systems- wasn't hooking up to a station but only transferring cargo and people by shuttle there would be no reason to invoke customs regulations. You could probably go right though the Manticore Junction of the ship was not stopping at the Junction or at any terminus it used with the Junction.

If Streak Drive isn't used in normal space then someone would have to catch a look in hyperspace and the chances of that are really low as someone eating to do that would have to get to the band(s) the Streak was using and there is the challange of knowing which way the ship went once it translated out.

cthia wrote:Of course, nobody is ever going to get a close inspection of one.

There are a couple of ways that a streak drive could be found: the simplest way would be that Galton did build them and so enough of a ship was found to provide a prototype. A less likely scenario is for a ship to have a compensator failure while being pursued, either due to accident or energy weapon fire.

Perhaps there are other circumstances, but at some point the brains at Bolthole will figure it out.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:18 pm

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tlb wrote:There are a couple of ways that a streak drive could be found: the simplest way would be that Galton did build them and so enough of a ship was found to provide a prototype. A less likely scenario is for a ship to have a compensator failure while being pursued, either due to accident or energy weapon fire.

Perhaps there are other circumstances, but at some point the brains at Bolthole will figure it out.

Or of course Simones might be able to provide enough of the theoretical background and what he can remember of the trials results of the original and/or improved version that Bolthole can independently reproduce it.

Knowing something is possible is often more than half the battle of making it yourself. (Heck we might even end up with an echo of the Grayson compensator where denied the details of how its done they end up actually making an even better one)
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:28 pm

tlb
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tlb wrote:There are a couple of ways that a streak drive could be found: the simplest way would be that Galton did build them and so enough of a ship was found to provide a prototype. A less likely scenario is for a ship to have a compensator failure while being pursued, either due to accident or energy weapon fire.

Perhaps there are other circumstances, but at some point the brains at Bolthole will figure it out.

Jonathan_S wrote:Or of course Simones might be able to provide enough of the theoretical background and what he can remember of the trials results of the original and/or improved version that Bolthole can independently reproduce it.

Knowing something is possible is often more than half the battle of making it yourself. (Heck we might even end up with an echo of the Grayson compensator where denied the details of how its done they end up actually making an even better one)

Isn't Herlander Simões one of the brains at Bolthole?
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:31 pm

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tlb wrote:Isn't Herlander Simões one of the brains at Bolthole?


We haven't heard about where he is these days, but yeah I'd expect him to be at Bolthole working with the Dynamic Duo that is at the top of Colin Assassinate As Soon As Possible list.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:39 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:If the RMN develops CM pods of their own, would they go back to towing pods of counter-missiles? A full load out of CM pods would seriously take a bite of the enemy's first launch. It is usually a moot point after that.

At any rate, how would the RMN deploy them? Internally? Or towed?


The problem of a CM pod is that it's not an anti-ship pod.

So if you've deployed CM pods in anticipation of an alpha strike, then you haven't deployed an anti-shipping alpha strike of your own. Maybe you do that after firing your alpha strike, but that limits the number of pods you could have deployed to the time it took from the enemy's launch to its arrival on your ships.

You're also right to question where they'd be carried. If they're carried inside the SD(P)s and BC(P)s, that means they're taking volume from anti-shipping pods. It may also mean you must deploy some of one kind before deploying the other kind, because that's how they got stacked when loading.


With MDM flight times you could roll an awful lot of CM pods after you launch your alpha strike. That means you don't have much behind the alpha strike but you're much more able to stop their reply and be around to throw more stuff their way.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:41 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:My guess is that Galton did NOT build the Streak Drive ships. They may have had input on initial research but -given the paranoia and the intention to sacrifice Galton as a bait & switch for the Alignment brains location- everything would have been swept up and removed.

So far nobody has working plans or a sample of a Streak vessel and the Alignment wants to keep it that way. Makes no sense to build them at Galton and risk loosing control.

That Streak ships were used between Hole-In-The-Wall and probably Darius given the round trip times the have been calculated only means that they used them on time sensitive runs to smooth the flow of information etc. It has been said that it's not likely anybody will identify a Steak ship just on visuals and since they are only going to use that function in hyper they should be safe. Of course it is also probable that any streak ship in danger of being boarded or captured is going to go BOOM.


Which shows Galton isn't the top and wastes the whole thing.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:34 am

cthia
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Loren Pechtel wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:My guess is that Galton did NOT build the Streak Drive ships. They may have had input on initial research but -given the paranoia and the intention to sacrifice Galton as a bait & switch for the Alignment brains location- everything would have been swept up and removed.

So far nobody has working plans or a sample of a Streak vessel and the Alignment wants to keep it that way. Makes no sense to build them at Galton and risk loosing control.

That Streak ships were used between Hole-In-The-Wall and probably Darius given the round trip times the have been calculated only means that they used them on time sensitive runs to smooth the flow of information etc. It has been said that it's not likely anybody will identify a Steak ship just on visuals and since they are only going to use that function in hyper they should be safe. Of course it is also probable that any streak ship in danger of being boarded or captured is going to go BOOM.


Which shows Galton isn't the top and wastes the whole thing.

But does that imply that there is another planet with a population? Rather than some bolthole somewhere manufacturing weapons. Early on, did anyone at all think that Haven's Bolthole would turn out to be a planet sustaining life? Rather than a hidden system with infrastructure set up around an uninhabitable planet? In which case, if Haven would have fallen, Bolthole would have been orphaned and died, had it been simply infrastructure set up around an uninhabitable planet.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Theemile   » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:29 am

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Brigade XO wrote:
If Streak Drive isn't used in normal space then someone would have to catch a look in hyperspace and the chances of that are really low as someone eating to do that would have to get to the band(s) the Streak was using and there is the challange of knowing which way the ship went once it translated out.


Ahh - But your missing the point of the streak drive. The secret sauce is that it can use 2 additional bands - and no one can detect an up translation. In normal space it behaves like a normal hyper drive - it jumps into hyper (in the alpha band). And even if you were following a Steak ship through hyper, when it kicked in those extra gears, it would simply disappear from your scanners. You might say "it jumped to the iota band" but have no proof that is what happened. It might be some kind of stealth, hyper distortion, the ship might have dropped a band and hyper distortion blocked the signal, or they might merely shut down their drives and let you fly past. Any of those are more reasonable explanations than an unheard of drive that reaches previously walled off areas of hyper.

Even if someone pulled the hardware apart, would a knowledgeable person even know what they are seeing? It's not the normal design, and that would be a glaring item, but could you tell that it opened 2 additional hyper bands? The only hint might be in the software controlling the drive.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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