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| about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by jeremysaint
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:24 pm
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jeremysaint
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i dont understand why the mesan alignment wants to kill everyone. do they just want to assume control of the solarian league or maybe conquer the galaxy? neither of those goals would require the deaths of entire planetary populations.
i have to assume i am missing something somewhere, and i hope other readers of this forum can help. |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by Duckk
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:41 pm
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Duckk
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The Alignment's goal is not to kill everyone. The deaths of however many hundreds of billions or trillions of people is going to occur as a result of the upheaval they have engineered, but they aren't nihilists. They have engineered the downfall of the Solarian League empire, so that they can sweep up the pieces and become the "saviors" of humankind. The Alignment also knows their history, that when empires fall, it is always a bloody mess that follows.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by Sheriff Yoda
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:23 pm
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Sheriff Yoda
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YEs, but the whole reason they are doing it is to protect the slave trade, bottom line. Of course they also think they are superior to every other human being in the galaxy too. |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by kzt
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:38 pm
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kzt
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They are fanatics on a mission. If this means wading through knee deep blood they will confidently set off. Whatever it takes get what they want done is what they are going to do. They remind me of certain other historical organizations. ...
". . . I also want to talk to you quite frankly about a very grave matter. We can talk about it quite frankly among ourselves and yet we will never speak of it publicly. Just as we did not hesitate on 30 June 1934 to do our duty as we were bidden, and to stand comrades who had lapsed up against the wall and shoot them, so we have never spoken about it and will never speak of it. It was that tact which is a matter of course, and which I am glad to say is inherent in us, that made us never discuss it among ourselves, never speak of it. It appalled everyone, and yet every was certain that he would do it the next time if such orders should be issued and it should be necessary." |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by Duckk
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:23 pm
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Duckk
Posts: 4200
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Err...what? The Alignment isn't destroying the League to protect the slave trade. The slave trade is a means to an end, not an end itself. -------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by jeremysaint
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:30 pm
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jeremysaint
Posts: 12
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none of that really makes sense though. they already control plenty of the solarian league through proxy agents. they can't possibly care who actually wears the crown or holds the title.
further, it was commented that although they have no moral compunction about violating the eridani accords, they chose not to simply because it would threaten other plans they have. and that those plans eventually include the deaths of everyone on manticore... so what im trying to figure out is what are those other plans. i assumed it was a long term strategy to guide the human race into a new era where among other things, normal biological reproduction is abandoned in favor of genetically engineering new people. but once more, why would they go to such extremes? it cant possibly be so they can enact some ridiculous megalomaniacal plan to conquer the universe. whatever their eventual goal, it can't simply be to take over the world. that would not have required the manticore-haven war. it certainly is not to protect their ability to make money with slavery. it has been mentioned a few times that the alignment doesnt really care about mesa beyond its utility as a cats paw. ---------------- i hope against hopes that there is a clever plot, a machiavellian scheme beyond the mere pedestrian acquisition of power. from the responses i have to assume that whatever the eventual goal of the alignment is, it has not yet been revealed. |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by Duckk
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:42 pm
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Duckk
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The overall goal of the Alignment was revealed in Storm from the Shadows and expounded on in Torch of Freedom. It sounds like you might not have read it, so I'll briefly summarize: they plan for the genetic uplifting of the entire human race. If your child could live longer and be healthier and smarter, why wouldn't you as a responsible parent choose that? It is a sign of mass insanity on the part of humanity to reject genetic modifications due to the Beowulf Code. So if human society as-is refuses to embrace genetic modification, then it is time to change the status quo.
Of course, that simple starting point by Leonard Detweiler has, over the centuries, gone very rapidly off the rails. But on the face of it, it is a rather noble goal, which is why so many on Mesa are willing to believe in the cause. Most of them either haven't thought too hard about the implications of their grand plan (like Jack McBryde at the start of ToF), or have come to accept that learning to make omelets is going to require breaking a lot of eggs in the process. And the Alignment's covert resources, while fairly vast, isn't sufficient to outright take control of the League. Hence the need to destroy it, and in the following chaos create something which can become a shining new beacon of civilization. That way they can have the moral authority to start tinkering with humanity. -------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by kzt
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:51 pm
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kzt
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The stated programs of the Bolsheviks and the National Socialist German Workers' Party both seemed to appeal to a lot of people, who assumed that the crazier parts of the program really were not really serious. In fact the crazy parts of the program were the parts that Lenin and Hitler really cared about.
My expectation is that Weber has structured the MA like this, where a lot of the supporters are really not realizing that the road to the glorious future will be paved with bodies of innocents. Last edited by kzt on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by Sheriff Yoda
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:25 pm
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Sheriff Yoda
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Really? I know that other than the slave issue is the issue of genetic manipulation, which is also a big deal with Mesa, is that the end they are going for? |
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| Re: about the alignment (sort of spoilers) | |
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by jeremysaint
» Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:44 pm
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jeremysaint
Posts: 12
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thank-you duckk.
i did read those books, but for some reason i dont remember that part. since i read them fairly recently, and even made a post about an inconsistency with a non fatal pulser wound, i am amazed that i missed the part i actually was most interested in. however, i would still argue that the goal you described would not require the eventual deaths of the entire manticore system, as implied in the most recent book. further, i would be very curious as to why they have to conceal the fact that the members of the alignment are themselves genetically engineered. too bad the honorverse wikia has so little information on the mesan alignment. |
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