Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?

Technodyne and the Jessyk Combine are two companies that appear to be deeply controlled by the Alignment although Technodyne is somewhat less rapacious has Jessyk. Both have been massively profitable (or so would seem from the various stories) though Jessyk has been more -again that we have seen or been told- down in the blood and multiple levels of criminal activities along with providing pipelines for people, materials and certainly information to be passed. Jessyk is about to be massively hammered based on what we see come out in TEIF but still exists and may shed splinter cells under Alignment control. Then there was all that money from Manpower and genetic slavery. It is doubtful that anybody (who survived long enough to bring it up) ever traces the literally billions in the slave trade back to anyone in the Alignment.

There is an overreaching feeling that the Alignment has so many fingers in so many businesses (legitimate or otherwise) that they have a massive cashflow. Besides, sitting there with Darius and an entire modern -for the Honorvese- industrialized world in what seems to be a closed economy, the Detweilers are so much less than some tiny decimal amount to get GSN (GrossSystem Product) that almost any extravagance is irrelevant. Darius produces for export.....what? Terrorists? Streak Drive Yachts/couriers it can't sell to anyone?
Heck the Alignment could have a massive (on the scale of hundreds of thousands) interest in different perfectly legitimate businesses including some on Manticore. The "profit" or rather dividends and interest flow out and nobody cares as long as local taxes and laws are covered.



Just one more little bit that we may or may not find out about.

Brigade XO wrote:Technodyne and the Jessyk Combine are two companies that appear to be deeply controlled by the Alignment although Technodyne is somewhat less rapacious has Jessyk. Both have been massively profitable (or so would seem from the various stories) though Jessyk has been more -again that we have seen or been told- down in the blood and multiple levels of criminal activities along with providing pipelines for people, materials and certainly information to be passed. Jessyk is about to be massively hammered based on what we see come out in TEIF but still exists and may shed splinter cells under Alignment control. Then there was all that money from Manpower and genetic slavery. It is doubtful that anybody (who survived long enough to bring it up) ever traces the literally billions in the slave trade back to anyone in the Alignment.

There is an overreaching feeling that the Alignment has so many fingers in so many businesses (legitimate or otherwise) that they have a massive cashflow. Besides, sitting there with Darius and an entire modern -for the Honorvese- industrialized world in what seems to be a closed economy, the Detweilers are so much less than some tiny decimal amount to get GSN (GrossSystem Product) that almost any extravagance is irrelevant. Darius produces for export.....what? Terrorists? Streak Drive Yachts/couriers it can't sell to anyone?
Heck the Alignment could have a massive (on the scale of hundreds of thousands) interest in different perfectly legitimate businesses including some on Manticore. The "profit" or rather dividends and interest flow out and nobody cares as long as local taxes and laws are covered.



Just one more little bit that we may or may not find out about.

Exactly! I couldn't have said it any better. The MA has its hooks in companies all over the Galaxy. I would wager even Sol. Unfriendly takeovers and unscrupulous business practices were probably commonplace and part of their MO.

What do you think would happen if the fontract with another company reads, "In case of death, controlling interest goes to ..."

Just how long was compulsion in play in the Galaxy.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

tlb wrote:Do you have a suggestion as to what book you saw this in? It must be after Mission of Honor, because it was not on the CD.

No, sorry. And a quick search for "clone" on the last few books turned up zero relevant results. That said, the post you found does indicate someone approved. It might be this very thread I read before my first post on the forum and I recalled as if it came from the books. What I do remember is that the clones were created because the end goal was in sight and Albrecht did need help... though note that your quote does not say anything about the end being in sight.

However, I also found this on TEiF:

To End in Fire, Ch. March 1923 wrote:With their parents' deaths, leaderships of the entire Alignment had devolved onto Benjamin Detweiler's shoulders, and he would not shirk his responsibilities... or fail the memories of Albrecht and Evelina Detweiler.

This chapter is on Benjamin's POV, so he clearly thinks he's the leader. Whether this BoD thinks so too is actually irrelevant, because he does, for all we've seen. The cast of characters, at the end of the books, says in man books that Albrecht was "Chief Executive Officer of the Mesan Alignment."

This tells me that prior to Benjamin, the Detweiler line was effectively hereditary CEOs of the Alignment, but the Board still had some level of autonomy to make decisions. They did decide to clone ALbrecht... though it might have been because Albrecht told them to decide that. Now, once the clones existed, they operate as a cabal beyond the BoD.

Exactly. The purpose of my post outlining what happens to CEOs who underperform applies here.

BoDs usually let the CEO pretty much have free reign. He had the original vision. But the power of the purse is strong. They have the collective power to oust him if need be. It simply takes a formal vote. "The ayes have it."

Just like that, Steve Jobs no longer heads up Apple. He was the Chairman and CEO of Apple.

tlb wrote:Let's assume that at one point, long long ago, the Mesan Alignment had shareholders. Why wouldn't everyone (except the Detweilers) exchange those shares for ones in real businesses? You know, so they could get dividends and buy or sell those shares openly?

cthia wrote:But mainly because they all have the same vision which supercedes the profit.

At any rate, a long term plan to rule the Galaxy is its own reward. The promise of power, prestige and vengeance. And the promise of lots of cash to wipe your arse with later.

When they begin selling the fruits of their labor, they will truly be filthy stinking rich. Instead of just stinky.

Yes, there will likely be vast wealth when the plan succeeds; but for these hypothetical investors that is not expected to be for 700 to 1000 years. None of them will be alive, perhaps not even their grandchildren will be alive. So why not exchange their imaginary Alignment stock for stock in real companies that pay dividends and can be openly bought and sold. Vast wealth today is always to be preferred to vaster wealth for great grandchildren's children.

Anyway, no evidence has been found for a Board of Directors, since the quote from RFC could be taken to mean the only organization is a leader and his lieutenants; which is the same arrangement as a gang which does not have directors. I expect that if they choose to have a board, then all of the Detweilers were on it (they will never be subordinate to it).

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:Let's assume that at one point, long long ago, the Mesan Alignment had shareholders. Why wouldn't everyone (except the Detweilers) exchange those shares for ones in real businesses? You know, so they could get dividends and buy or sell those shares openly?

cthia wrote:But mainly because they all have the same vision which supercedes the profit.

At any rate, a long term plan to rule the Galaxy is its own reward. The promise of power, prestige and vengeance. And the promise of lots of cash to wipe your arse with later.

When they begin selling the fruits of their labor, they will truly be filthy stinking rich. Instead of just stinky.

Yes, there will likely be vast wealth when the plan succeeds; but for these hypothetical investors that is not expected to be for 700 to 1000 years. None of them will be alive, perhaps not even their grandchildren will be alive. So why not exchange their imaginary Alignment stock for stock in real companies that pay dividends and can be openly bought and sold. Vast wealth today is always to be preferred to vaster wealth for great grandchildren's children.

They were likely not going to be around when the entire centuries long plan came together either, but that didn't stop Leonard or them from pursuing goals that they were never going to see come to fruition.

As far as the profit, they were wiping their asses with money long long ago. Sex slaves surely is a very lucrative business. I wouldn't even want to try to guess how lucrative. Nor would I want to guess just how many people in the Galaxy actually owned a slave.

Prostitution is the oldest profession known to man. Now, consider that these "pleasure slaves" were not only mail-order bride's err "rides," but made to order "rides." Go ahead, lie to me, "You wouldn't want to have your very own Cherry 2000?" LOL

tlb wrote:Anyway, no evidence has been found for a Board of Directors, since the quote from RFC could be taken to mean the only organization is a leader and his lieutenants; which is the same arrangement as a gang which does not have directors. I expect that if they choose to have a board, then all of the Detweilers were on it (they will never be subordinate to it).

You should give up the ghost on that tlb. There is no way a BoD didn't exist. Leonard Detweiler could not have afforded any part of it alone. Seed capital was needed on a massive scale. Contacts were needed on a massive scale. Financiers are not going to put up that kind of capital without some of the controlling interest.

Logic puts paid to it. If everything was all Detweiler, then they were the LRPB and the Strategy Board too. And if that were so, why the need to worry whether the left hand knew what the right hand was doing.


P.S.

I don't have searchable text anymore. I loaned my CDs to my foreign friends in Romania. I had them on my computer which crashed. I know of friends who have the disk but I won't bother. Usually I searched the text when I visited them. Since the pandemic, no unnecessary visits to friends happen.

Besides, I never enjoyed being able to search all of the books. So, usually I caught no joy. And all of them are not in the same format, and my software at the time only searched several pages at a time. It just wasn't worth the effort.

I understand that you'd like that text. Seeing is believing. All I can say is that I remember reading it somewhere. I can't swear that it was in the books, but I do recall reading it and for some reason I think it is in one of the Shadow books.

But, again, understanding business as I do, and knowing that Detweiler wasn't richer than a Queen's ransom...

.

cthia wrote:Exactly. The purpose of my post outlining what happens to CEOs who underperform applies here.

BoDs usually let the CEO pretty much have free reign. He had the original vision. But the power of the purse is strong. They have the collective power to oust him if need be. It simply takes a formal vote. "The ayes have it."

No, I don't think so. That really depends on what the bylaws of said board say. In a regular, incorporated company, the BoD is the body to make decisions between General Assemblies of all shareholders. The shareholders have final say... and someone with 50% + 1 share has that
say alone. So even if the Alignment operated like a regular company, it's possible the Detweilers controlled enough of the voting shares that made them effectively unassailable.

It's highly unlikely they did operate like a company. After all, it's not like there was legal entity to give receipts in exchange for the capital invested, so the natural persons could declare in their tax returns. No, despite calling himself CEO and the decision-making body a "board of directors," there's little chance this looks like a company. Heck, the Beowulf Planetary Board of Directors had a similar name (and might have been the inspiration), but that BoD is likely just an executive out of a democratic institution.

So, I agree in theory the BoD could have powers to vote anyone out. In practice, that might not be possible for certain individuals, for a lot of reasons, overt or implied.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Exactly. The purpose of my post outlining what happens to CEOs who underperform applies here.

BoDs usually let the CEO pretty much have free reign. He had the original vision. But the power of the purse is strong. They have the collective power to oust him if need be. It simply takes a formal vote. "The ayes have it."

No, I don't think so. That really depends on what the bylaws of said board say. In a regular, incorporated company, the BoD is the body to make decisions between General Assemblies of all shareholders. The shareholders have final say... and someone with 50% + 1 share has that
say alone. So even if the Alignment operated like a regular company, it's possible the Detweilers controlled enough of the voting shares that made them effectively unassailable.

It's highly unlikely they did operate like a company. After all, it's not like there was legal entity to give receipts in exchange for the capital invested, so the natural persons could declare in their tax returns. No, despite calling himself CEO and the decision-making body a "board of directors," there's little chance this looks like a company. Heck, the Beowulf Planetary Board of Directors had a similar name (and might have been the inspiration), but that BoD is likely just an executive out of a democratic institution.

So, I agree in theory the BoD could have powers to vote anyone out. In practice, that might not be possible for certain individuals, for a lot of reasons, overt or implied.

Again, massive seed capital was needed. No investor worth his weight in credits risks those credits on someone else's whims without equal stake in the company. Each investor. And the collective interest of all of the investors unrelated to Leonard would exceed 50%. Leonard was no Bruce Wayne.

If they were denied their share of the controlling interest, they would simply keep their money. Leonard needed them, they didn't need him.

"Money talks. Bullshit walks."


You ever watch the TV show "Shark Tank?" The main argument is always about the percentage of the stake in the company.

"No, I am not willing to invest that kind of money with only a 20% stake."

Plus they make decisions on running the company. It is their money on the line. Take it or leave it. Leonard must have been desperate for seed capital.

However, this is only my spin on the yarn I didn't make.

cthia wrote:Again, massive seed capital was needed. No investor worth his weight in credits risks those credits on someone else's whims without equal stake in the company. Each investor. And the collective interest of all of the investors unrelated to Leonard would exceed 50%. Leonard was no Bruce Wayne.

I agree, that would have been the initial expectation. In the first century or two, it might even have been reality.

But it doesn't mean it remained so. Between Leonard and Albrecht, a Zebediah Detweiler may have amassed so much power that he was effectively unassailable. The BoD becomes mere rubber-stampers: they have to do what he says, or Astérix will pay them a visit.

If they were denied their share of the controlling interest, they would simply keep their money. Leonard needed them, they didn't need him.

Not after it's too late. Once the money is gone into dirty activities and laundered, you can't recover it easily. If the criminal you loaned money officially didn't have refuses to pay, what are you going to do? Sue them?

cthia wrote:Leonard Detweiler could not have afforded any part of it alone. Seed capital was needed on a massive scale. Contacts were needed on a massive scale. Financiers are not going to put up that kind of capital without some of the controlling interest.

Stop saying Leonard Detweiler; he created Mesa and certainly had fellow investors in that. He did not create the Mesan Alignment, that was not created until after he was dead and his original vision was corrupted. By then the Detweiler fortune would have been enormous; well past that of Bruce Wayne.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Again, massive seed capital was needed. No investor worth his weight in credits risks those credits on someone else's whims without equal stake in the company. Each investor. And the collective interest of all of the investors unrelated to Leonard would exceed 50%. Leonard was no Bruce Wayne.

I agree, that would have been the initial expectation. In the first century or two, it might even have been reality.

But it doesn't mean it remained so. Between Leonard and Albrecht, a Zebediah Detweiler may have amassed so much power that he was effectively unassailable. The BoD becomes mere rubber-stampers: they have to do what he says, or Astérix will pay them a visit.

If they were denied their share of the controlling interest, they would simply keep their money. Leonard needed them, they didn't need him.

Not after it's too late. Once the money is gone into dirty activities and laundered, you can't recover it easily. If the criminal you loaned money officially didn't have refuses to pay, what are you going to do? Sue them?

You have a point there. It is the price of doing business with criminals. There is no honor among thieves.

Scarface became so big he killed his mentor. "I am Tony Montana!"

At any rate, the BoD has paper trails. If they are still breathing they can bring the entire house down at any time.