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Wormhole Assault: MA Style

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Re: Wormhole Assault: MA Style
Post by cthia   » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:58 am

cthia
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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:Momentarily putting aside our disagreement on the effectiveness of MA stealth, you are probably right about the denseness of sensors in and around the junction. But. Would those sensors necessarily be trained on those negative vectors? For that matter, would missiles necessarily be trained on those vectors?
I'm quite confident that forts exist full spheres around the entire junction, not just on the hemisphere that faces the Manticore-A system. They need that coverage to fend off attack through normal space that would come from that direction. (The fact that the RZ doesn't extend out there actually makes the "Back" hemisphere of the Junction the safest area for an attacker to emerge from hyper -- so defenses pointed that way would be a major focus. (Remember, the Junction defenses are mostly about defending it from hostile ships approaching it -- protecting the system from hostile ships coming through it is secondary (in that it takes much less firepower to accomplish)

cthia wrote:Of course I could be wrong, but I disagree with that. All positive vectors heading into the junction through the Origin will result in destruction if they are ships not properly configured, no? It should be the same for missiles. On the flip side, all negative vectors (ships or their missiles) should pass right thru the Origin, unaffected.
Even if the grav turbulence doesn't stretch back into your "negative vectors" it definitely beings at the "origin". So while we don't know if a missile can get close to the "origin" from the back it definitely can't can't pass through the origin because at the origin it would encounter the full effect of the grav turbulence and be torn apart.

It might be able to get close enough to fire off a laser head - but that's no different a threat that doing so from the sides of the cylindrical destructive grav zone.


cthia wrote:For that matter, would GA ships on positive vectors even be able to detect LDs hiding behind the junction thru the Origin? I don't see any difference between using the planet or the junction itself as cover. Effective cover that intuitively would seem to work only for the enemy who is situated "behind" the junction.
The grav effects might blind at least the grav sensors on ships that are actually sailing up the grav lane to that Junction terminus - but as I said there will be forts around the full sphere of the Junction - so several will have a clean line of sight to the backside any terminus; and they're the actual defenses, not the ships making transit (so it doesn't really matter whether or not a ship can see through the terminus it's approaching)

Is the effect of the gravitational turbulence emanating from the entry and exit lanes similarly directed? Think waves on the ocean when a ship can travel with or against. Even traveling WITH the rapids is fraught with turbulence and danger, but traveling against the rapids can be immediately fatal. At any rate, is the turbulence encountered by a ship in the transit lane in direct opposition to the ship?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Wormhole Assault: MA Style
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:43 am

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cthia wrote:Is the effect of the gravitational turbulence emanating from the entry and exit lanes similarly directed? Think waves on the ocean when a ship can travel with or against. Even traveling WITH the rapids is fraught with turbulence and danger, but traveling against the rapids can be immediately fatal. At any rate, is the turbulence encountered by a ship in the transit lane in direct opposition to the ship?

RFC's never said (that I can recall) if the grav turbulence there is directional - much less how it might be oriented.

From the background details in either SVW or MTH we do know that grav waves are directional. (And in earlier eras ships actually had to tack when sailing 'up wind'. But as sail technology improved that became unnecessary and ships can accelerate just as quickly directly 'up wind' as directly 'down wind'.)
But even there we don't know if the grav turbulence within the grav wave follows the 'flow' of the wave. And we certainly don't know if that would map over to enterance/exit lanes.
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Re: Wormhole Assault: MA Style
Post by Theemile   » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:27 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:Is the effect of the gravitational turbulence emanating from the entry and exit lanes similarly directed? Think waves on the ocean when a ship can travel with or against. Even traveling WITH the rapids is fraught with turbulence and danger, but traveling against the rapids can be immediately fatal. At any rate, is the turbulence encountered by a ship in the transit lane in direct opposition to the ship?

RFC's never said (that I can recall) if the grav turbulence there is directional - much less how it might be oriented.

From the background details in either SVW or MTH we do know that grav waves are directional. (And in earlier eras ships actually had to tack when sailing 'up wind'. But as sail technology improved that became unnecessary and ships can accelerate just as quickly directly 'up wind' as directly 'down wind'.)
But even there we don't know if the grav turbulence within the grav wave follows the 'flow' of the wave. And we certainly don't know if that would map over to enterance/exit lanes.


If there are steady currents, It would suggest that they flow directly into (for the transit lane) and out of (for the Emergence lane) the wormhole. Ships in the lanes are under no power and if there were strong cross currents, it would make staying in the lane difficult, and reverse currents would force you either away from the terminus (for the entry point), or suck you back in (for the emergence point). Instead, the experience is described as a "steady" glide at a low speed. I don't know how that is simultaneously possible with turbulent grav forces... but that is what has been described to date.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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