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Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options

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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:49 pm

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cthia wrote:
Duckk wrote:I have no idea what the heck you’re talking about. Young was already cashiered well before he was involved with Summervale.

Thank you Duckk! Now everybody sees one of the benefits of having a high powered legal team. They come with high powered research assistants digging into precedence and presenting the facts. Now I have plenty of time to adjust my house of cards. :D

Waitaminute Duckk! My notion was correct. My original argument included the disclaimer "Depending on when Young filed his case."

It wasn't "well" before Duckk. The court martial happened as a result of Young's actions at Hancock. It was because of him losing that trial which made him seek out Summervale. However, as I stated, if Young would have seen the writing on the wall that he would be court martialed for his actions at Hancock, he could have filed a preemptive strike against Honor to head it off. Heck, the court martial was already divisive.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:15 pm

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cthia wrote:It wasn't "well" before Duckk. The court martial happened as a result of Young's actions at Hancock. It was because of him losing that trial which made him seek out Summervale. However, as I stated, if Young would have seen the writing on the wall that he would be court martialed for his actions at Hancock, he could have filed a preemptive strike against Honor to head it off. Heck, the court martial was already divisive.

Please explain how and where he would file anything against Honor that would preempt his court martial. The only charge at the Academy was when "Young caught an official reprimand for conduct unbecoming". I fail to see how he can re-litigate that into anything that stops the Naval proceedings. A civil court case does not impede a court martial and the evidence was almost entirely log records.
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:18 pm

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munroburton wrote:I'm not sure what that refit of Warlock has to do with the events of Field of Dishonor.


Nothing, in and of itself. But to a shrewd legal team, it goes to motive of a corrupt Queen's Navy marching to the beat of a baseborn bitch sleeping around. Obviously she stole a husband from his wife, the prosecution would say. At the expense of Emily.

Emotionally, I don't know if Emily could have fought off a trial. It would get ugly. The right lawyer would break her. And if Emily wouldn't break, Honor and or Hamish would break on account of watching her burden the pain. Plus, I'm sure there's a weak link on the staff. There always is. Someone would get to that one disgruntled member of the staff, or a relatively new, or part-time hire.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:29 pm

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One more thing. I think Young would be able to afford his legal team. He's a Lord. A Lord can't be broke and still be a Lord, can he? How can Young think of Honor as a lowly baseborn Commoner if he himself is pinching pennies.

At any rate, I don't think it would matter. I'm willing to bet there are a few high powered lawyers on the Opposition that would take the case Pro Bono. They already hate the Salamander, and that case would place the Salamander right where they want her. Plus it would do wonderful things for the career of any lawyer who can pin the Salamder's ears to the bulkhead.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:32 pm

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munroburton wrote:I'm not sure what that refit of Warlock has to do with the events of Field of Dishonor.

cthia wrote:Nothing, in and of itself. But to a shrewd legal team, it goes to motive of a corrupt Queen's Navy marching to the beat of a baseborn bitch sleeping around. Obviously she stole a husband from his wife, the prosecution would say. At the expense of Emily.

Emotionally, I don't know if Emily could have fought off a trial. It would get ugly. The right lawyer would break her. And if Emily wouldn't break, Honor and or Hamish would break on account of watching her burden the pain. Plus, I'm sure there's a weak link on the staff. There always is. Someone would get to that one disgruntled member of the staff, or a relatively new, or part-time hire.

Please do us all a favor and reread the books. Honor did not get involved with White Haven for several more years, after Pavel Young was well dead (Burdette also) and she returned from Hades.
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:03 pm

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tlb wrote:
munroburton wrote:I'm not sure what that refit of Warlock has to do with the events of Field of Dishonor.

cthia wrote:Nothing, in and of itself. But to a shrewd legal team, it goes to motive of a corrupt Queen's Navy marching to the beat of a baseborn bitch sleeping around. Obviously she stole a husband from his wife, the prosecution would say. At the expense of Emily.

Emotionally, I don't know if Emily could have fought off a trial. It would get ugly. The right lawyer would break her. And if Emily wouldn't break, Honor and or Hamish would break on account of watching her burden the pain. Plus, I'm sure there's a weak link on the staff. There always is. Someone would get to that one disgruntled member of the staff, or a relatively new, or part-time hire.

Please do us all a favor and reread the books. Honor did not get involved with White Haven for several more years, after Pavel Young was well dead (Burdette also) and she returned from Hades.

I agree. It's also in the Wiki. :oops: I need a reread; badly. And I'm excited about it. My apologies. Do carry on.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by Garth 2   » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:59 am

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It's an interesting "what if" discussion buried in the thread though.
If we make the assumption that Pavel, "tin god" aspect of his personality kicked in first and he did sue Honor for slander (since he would blackmail material on one or more judges) which results in a CIVILIAN trail, in the full glare of the media.

Honor lawyers enter the tape as evidence for the defence, as stated both in the book and on here it doesn't matter were/how she got it

The tape is verified as a true recording of Denver voice (who is also dead at this point), at which point things get really interesting -

-> Pavel in a civilian court got confirmed* to ordering an assassination of a serving RMN officer during a time of emergency (the Haven sneak attack)
-> Pavel in a civilian court got confirmed* to ordering out an attempted assassination (as Denver failed) of a serving RMN officer during a time of war (the declaration was passed whilst Honor was in transit back from Grayson) which would probably be classified as "treason"

* Note: Pavel defence would be Denver was lying for his own reasons, and Pavel obviously had nothing to do with it but I wonder if others wouldn't be ready to stick the knife in

But this should still trigger a formal investigation in to Pavel by either the Landing Police or (more probably) Manticore' internal security agency (think - FBI/Homeland security/MI-5/etc.), which would then uncover the North Hollow files, which would then lead to further investigations of not only Pavel but the rest of the family, key staff but everyone he has data on.

This would, probably, have massive ramifications for the SKM as:
-> the intelligence gather network that Pavel father built up is dismantled with more charges for individuals who chose to work with the Youngs rather than Crown or just broke contract requirements e.g. NDAs or service oaths
-> people in the files, who can be charged are charged

An example would be: High Ridge and the insider trading event would probably mean he wouldn't be a problem anymore
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by tlb   » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:27 am

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Garth 2 wrote:Pavel in a civilian court got confirmed* to ordering out an attempted assassination (as Denver failed) of a serving RMN officer during a time of war (the declaration was passed whilst Honor was in transit back from Grayson) which would probably be classified as "treason"

A good lawyer could point out that these supposed events of ordering a killing of Paul Tankersley and of Honor happened at the same time, which was alleged to be during a time of emergency and not a time of war. It is not clear to me that the criminal result of this arrangement is as bad as the political results would be. Pavel Young would be confirmed to have hired a professional duelist, an action that would result in exile from proper society.

However if it did result in an investigation that exposed the North Hollow files and removed them from his control, then his power would be gone. This is moot because he would still face a duel with Honor, once the slander trial was over.
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:22 am

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tlb wrote:A good lawyer could point out that these supposed events of ordering a killing of Paul Tankersley and of Honor happened at the same time, which was alleged to be during a time of emergency and not a time of war. It is not clear to me that the criminal result of this arrangement is as bad as the political results would be. Pavel Young would be confirmed to have hired a professional duelist, an action that would result in exile from proper society.

However if it did result in an investigation that exposed the North Hollow files and removed them from his control, then his power would be gone. This is moot because he would still face a duel with Honor, once the slander trial was over.

Though if he's already exiled from society, by exposure that he hired a professional duelist, what possible motivation would Young have for accepting Honor's challenge?

He can't exactly get exiled and lose his political career again for refusing.

I'm betting in that situation he'd go for live coward and simply refuse the duel.
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Re: Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options
Post by tlb   » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:19 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:Though if he's already exiled from society, by exposure that he hired a professional duelist, what possible motivation would Young have for accepting Honor's challenge?

He can't exactly get exiled and lose his political career again for refusing.

I'm betting in that situation he'd go for live coward and simply refuse the duel.

That sounds right. Would he give up the title to his brother in exchange for an allowance to live somewhere else or would he selfishly keep it? Is it possible that Honor would arrange for an assassination through the Audubon Ballroom or some other group?

If he could put himself into a situation where he could refuse the challenge by suing, then why not simply refuse without ever suing, If anything he would be less worse off, because he has not lost the slander suit,

The answer must be that he has wrapped up his self worth inextricably with being a Lord in Manticoran society and so finds it unacceptable to either risk losing the slander suit or refusing a challenge to a duel.
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