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Mesan Genies outside the Onion

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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:44 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Thing is, if Raul developed the ability to telepathicly communicate with Treecats, it is also possible that he could be a key to bringing that trait to an exibitable level in other humans. That would possibly start out as some variation of a very faint ability to sence another humans thoughts (mostly the empethy part) but bumping into a human who has any one of several (dare we call them psychic) gifts which humans are said to have had in legend and have usualy been brutaly suppressed throughout recorded history, might that bring the gift out?


They could then create an organisation devoted to studying this as well as for mutual protection against those who would exploit them. This organisation could also regulate the activities so other people's privacy can't be violated and telepaths can't take advantage of non-telepaths. Though it's not a stretch to think that it could eventually decide to improve upon their abilities through partner selection, so as to not violate the Beowulf Code.

I guess this organisation could call itself Psi Corps.

The Corps is mother, the Corps is father.

cthia wrote:And... just like that you've touched on one very significant reason why the whole idea of genies is still a taboo subject. Humans have always been afraid of what they do not understand. And oftentimes for good reason. As I understand it, treecats have been misunderstood for most of the time since their discovery.

Introducing an ability that can be used as a weapon of any design, or can be used against the average human surreptitiously, would cause any human concern or fear which would be more than justified.

Who here disagrees that if it became known that just one human has telepathy or telempathy, no one would want him or her living in their neighborhood, let alone interact with him. Dollars to donuts he'd end up dead.

And voila, I give you the root of the entire argument inside that can of worms I opened in a certain controversial thread.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by tlb   » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:29 pm

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cthia wrote:And voila, I give you the root of the entire argument inside that can of worms I opened in a certain controversial thread.

One of the things that I disagreed with you in that discussion was the extent that Honor could receive mental communication from Nimitz. On reading the short story The Best Laid Plans in the book Beginnings Worlds of Honor #6, it is clear that RFC has retconned that connection in your direction. The story is about the bonding of Nimitz and Honor.

PS. That does not change my conviction that William Fitzclarence, Lord Burdette, got exactly and justly what he deserved.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:37 pm

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:And voila, I give you the root of the entire argument inside that can of worms I opened in a certain controversial thread.

One of the things that I disagreed with you in that discussion was the extent that Honor could receive mental communication from Nimitz. On reading the short story The Best Laid Plans in the book Beginnings Worlds of Honor #6, it is clear that RFC has retconned that connection in your direction. The story is about the bonding of Nimitz and Honor.

PS. That does not change my conviction that William Fitzclarence, Lord Burdette, got exactly and justly what he deserved.

Thanks for admitting that, and for the info. It shows the purity of mettle on your part. I am humbled.

But, how is it reconned in my favor? As I understand retconn, the book would have to come after that can of worms. No?

I never disagreed with you that Fitzclarence received his just dessert. In fact, long live he in hell.

I questioned the possible means of the kill. On a religious planet the means cannot, shall not, will not, does not justify the ends. That was God's entire lesson to Moses.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Fox2!   » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:10 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
They could then create an organisation devoted to studying this as well as for mutual protection against those who would exploit them. This organisation could also regulate the activities so other people's privacy can't be violated and telepaths can't take advantage of non-telepaths. Though it's not a stretch to think that it could eventually decide to improve upon their abilities through partner selection, so as to not violate the Beowulf Code.

I guess this organisation could call itself Psi Corps.

The Corps is mother, the Corps is father.


They would be like the Howard Families, only focused on improving telepathic/telempathic abilities, rather than longevity, which has already been achieved via Prolong. Which originated with Allison's family.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by tlb   » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:59 am

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cthia wrote:But, how is it reconned in my favor? As I understand retconn, the book would have to come after that can of worms. No?

I never disagreed with you that Fitzclarence received his just dessert. In fact, long live he in hell.

I questioned the possible means of the kill. On a religious planet the means cannot, shall not, will not, does not justify the ends. That was God's entire lesson to Moses.

Wikipedia defines "retcon" as the following (which agrees with the dictionary):
Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former
I had to look up "diegetic" in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
existing or occurring within the world of a narrative rather than as something external to that world
Since FIE was published in 1995 and Beginnings was published in 2013, I believe this fits the definition. I understand that you expected "retcon" to involve a re-explanation from later in the story line, but things like the "great resizing" also qualify.

The short stories in Beginnings not only give Honor a much stronger psychic sense, but also give her father-to-be a very strong and unexpected psychic sense (which might be interacting with her mother-to-be?).

On the scale of things Burdette was a greater offender and I do not accept that Honor violated that principle, unlike you, since a trial by combat is inherently unfair unless the combatants are perfectly matched.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:29 pm

cthia
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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:But, how is it reconned in my favor? As I understand retconn, the book would have to come after that can of worms. No?

I never disagreed with you that Fitzclarence received his just dessert. In fact, long live he in hell.

I questioned the possible means of the kill. On a religious planet the means cannot, shall not, will not, does not justify the ends. That was God's entire lesson to Moses.

Wikipedia defines "retcon" as the following (which agrees with the dictionary):
Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former
I had to look up "diegetic" in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
existing or occurring within the world of a narrative rather than as something external to that world
Since FIE was published in 1995 and Beginnings was published in 2013, I believe this fits the definition. I understand that you expected "retcon" to involve a re-explanation from later in the story line, but things like the "great resizing" also qualify.

The short stories in Beginnings not only give Honor a much stronger psychic sense, but also give her father-to-be a very strong and unexpected psychic sense (which might be interacting with her mother-to-be?).

On the scale of things Burdette was a greater offender and I do not accept that Honor violated that principle, unlike you, since a trial by combat is inherently unfair unless the combatants are perfectly matched.

Thanks. I considered after the post that it could have been in reference to one of his earlier novels.

I first heard "diegetic" from a woman in a book club. She threw it at me and I was perplexed. Incidentally, we were discussing Imzadi, by Peter David in the Star Trek world. The relationship between Riker and Deanna is much like Honor and Nimitz. We discussed that book for eons. It raged on much like the can of worms in the Ramblings thread.

You should be able to imagine being the only male in a book club with about two dozen females discussing IMZADI, which led directly to intimate relationships, and a man's complete idiocy when it comes to women. Yadda yadda yadda. That is a good book, and discussion.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:32 pm

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Psi Corps. And Mr Bester..now there was a villain you loved to hate.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Theemile   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:55 am

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Brigade XO wrote:Psi Corps. And Mr Bester..now there was a villain you loved to hate.


Best part of Bester (and any good villian for that matter), was not that he was evil, but actually a true believer in a cause, and one that had actual, believable goals and interests. His Machiavellian nature just intensified his character (as one would expect in any senior member of any such cause).
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:01 am

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Theemile wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Psi Corps. And Mr Bester..now there was a villain you loved to hate.


Best part of Bester (and any good villian for that matter), was not that he was evil, but actually a true believer in a cause, and one that had actual, believable goals and interests. His Machiavellian nature just intensified his character (as one would expect in any senior member of any such cause).



I defy you to prove that Bester was wrong. Consider the Neanderthals and the Denisovians. They had Europe and Asia to themselves. Then they were invaded by mutants from Africa.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by tlb   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:06 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Psi Corps. And Mr Bester..now there was a villain you loved to hate.

Theemile wrote:Best part of Bester (and any good villian for that matter), was not that he was evil, but actually a true believer in a cause, and one that had actual, believable goals and interests. His Machiavellian nature just intensified his character (as one would expect in any senior member of any such cause).

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I defy you to prove that Bester was wrong. Consider the Neanderthals and the Denisovians. They had Europe and Asia to themselves. Then they were invaded by mutants from Africa.

I do not know how that follows, since Bester was a Psi Cop hunting renegade psis; so in this analogy, he was one of the mutants.
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