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Mesan Genies outside the Onion

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Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by SharkHunter   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:03 am

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In another thread, it occurred to me that the GA has a headache they're not as well equipped to handle: the fact that a big portion of the Mesan citizenry (we're not talking secces or newly liberated slave populations) may have received genetic enhancement WAY beyond what they Beowulf code allows... who are no longer under "Onion dominion"... and who are presumably now free to choose who they want to mate with. Are they free to move about the galaxy? or under planetary quarantine?

One thing that isn't going to happen is anything genocidal or forced sterilization, etc. My thought is that Beowulf is the likely polity that is the only one REALLY in a position to begin making those kinds of decisions, but my question is...

What do they do with groups of individuals that the MAlign have called alpha, beta, and gamma lines?
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Theemile   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:29 am

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SharkHunter wrote:In another thread, it occurred to me that the GA has a headache they're not as well equipped to handle: the fact that a big portion of the Mesan citizenry (we're not talking secces or newly liberated slave populations) may have received genetic enhancement WAY beyond what they Beowulf code allows... who are no longer under "Onion dominion"... and who are presumably now free to choose who they want to mate with. Are they free to move about the galaxy? or under planetary quarantine?

One thing that isn't going to happen is anything genocidal or forced sterilization, etc. My thought is that Beowulf is the likely polity that is the only one REALLY in a position to begin making those kinds of decisions, but my question is...

What do they do with groups of individuals that the MAlign have called alpha, beta, and gamma lines?


You've just described the entire breadth of genetic slavery and the population of Mesa and all it's daughter worlds. And of course we know of the "unknowns" - emplaced alpha lines and spies. The Genie (pun intended) is out of the bottle....
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by zyffyr   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:08 am

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The crime is in creating the modifications, not in having them. Nothing special will happen to the people in question.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am

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zyffyr wrote:The crime is in creating the modifications, not in having them. Nothing special will happen to the people in question.
Agreed.

Though reputably geneticists would be able to offer them genetic services to allow them the option to conceive children that don't have the most egregious of the genetic modifications.

But it wouldn't be a violation of the Beowulf code for them to eschew such services and have kids that continue the "illegal" mods.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:38 pm

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It would be interesting to know if public awareness of the alpha and beta lines results in an upsurge of bias against "genies". (Unless I've missed something, the gamma lines were intended to serve, so probably wouldn't have gotten as much genetic adjustment.)

We have plenty of textev to show that geneticists in this universe can identify a person's planet of origin from a gene scan, assuming a reasonable sample in the databases. I recall a mention in one of the Cachat/Zilwicki novels that a good geneticist could have scanned a sample from Cachat and narrowed it down to Nouveau Paris, not just Haven. Presumably the Mesan genome is just as distinctive in a scanner, given the LRPB's approval of alpha or beta births. Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much for people to go from "Oh, you're one of those Mesans who think you're superior to all of us" to "Oh, you're a genie, you must think you're superior to all of us".
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Theemile   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:53 pm

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Julia Minor wrote:It would be interesting to know if public awareness of the alpha and beta lines results in an upsurge of bias against "genies". (Unless I've missed something, the gamma lines were intended to serve, so probably wouldn't have gotten as much genetic adjustment.)

We have plenty of textev to show that geneticists in this universe can identify a person's planet of origin from a gene scan, assuming a reasonable sample in the databases. I recall a mention in one of the Cachat/Zilwicki novels that a good geneticist could have scanned a sample from Cachat and narrowed it down to Nouveau Paris, not just Haven. Presumably the Mesan genome is just as distinctive in a scanner, given the LRPB's approval of alpha or beta births. Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much for people to go from "Oh, you're one of those Mesans who think you're superior to all of us" to "Oh, you're a genie, you must think you're superior to all of us".


The reliability of a scan depends on the planet, it's isolation from the greater universe, and the length of time it was isolated - amongst other factors.

Sol, for example is a mélange of genetics coming and going and mixing - Scaning it's average citizen will give you "Human, Indeterminant"

Where as Grayson (and Mesada) started with a limited genepool from one area of the world, and was isolated for long stretch, and had a specific genetic manipulation, in addition to the heavy metal issues. Masada, was populated by a further filtering of the previous population (50,000 individuals), again with nearly zero outside contact.

Manticore was originally colonized by a polulation from Western Europe and N America, but then erquired rebuilding the population following the plague, which was open to all, then later virtually direct connection to the core worlds and Sol for ~250 years, making a normal Manticorian difficult to pick out from the crowd.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm

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I believe the original settlers of Mesa were given mods to allow them to live on Mesa, likewise those who settled Darius from Mesa.
I can't remember if it is stated anywhere just how different Mesa and Darius are to the Terran standard.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by kzt   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:39 pm

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George J. Smith wrote:I believe the original settlers of Mesa were given mods to allow them to live on Mesa, likewise those who settled Darius from Mesa.
I can't remember if it is stated anywhere just how different Mesa and Darius are to the Terran standard.

No, I don't think it was. But the mods made contradicted the Beowulf code at the time. Which was kind of the point.
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by Theemile   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:40 pm

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kzt wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:I believe the original settlers of Mesa were given mods to allow them to live on Mesa, likewise those who settled Darius from Mesa.
I can't remember if it is stated anywhere just how different Mesa and Darius are to the Terran standard.

No, I don't think it was. But the mods made contradicted the Beowulf code at the time. Which was kind of the point.


I believe it was Just said that the workers and colonists were "MesaFormed".
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Mesan Genies outside the Onion
Post by tlb   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:41 pm

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George J. Smith wrote:I believe the original settlers of Mesa were given mods to allow them to live on Mesa, likewise those who settled Darius from Mesa.
I can't remember if it is stated anywhere just how different Mesa and Darius are to the Terran standard.

kzt wrote:No, I don't think it was. But the mods made contradicted the Beowulf code at the time. Which was kind of the point.

Theemile wrote:I believe it was Just said that the workers and colonists were "MesaFormed".

However there is no mention that something special that had to be done to any of the visitors to Mesa in the recent books. So has the original problem gone away? Or was the problem overblown from the beginning?
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