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Abigale Hearns

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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by jtg452   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:28 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Indeed I was!

This just makes it even less likely the GSN will be able to concentrate its native-born female officers on a ship for a generation.


With the wartime pressure to crew every hull gone, who's to say that all of them have to receive a shipboard assignment?

The social requirements behind the berthing arrangements for females in the GSN are so much simpler to solve on the beach.

Got a bunch of women officers on base? Then designate a hall- or whole floor if need be- in the BOQ as Women's Country. If one's married, then get her family into Family Housing and the problem is solved.

Getting assigned to Black Bird (once it's rebuilt) or a satellite yard is just as, if not more, likely as getting a ship- since we all recognize that Grayson can't support wartime staffing levels long term.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:23 pm

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jtg452 wrote:You're forgetting that all assignments in a Navy aren't to ships!

Ship posting are often the exception rather than the rule in peacetime navies for some MOS.

You have dockyards, depots, logistic bases, training schools, stations, planet bound bases, staff and headquarters commands, etc... that all need bodies.

Engineers become yard dogs for a while or end up assigned to a ship builiding facility, junior tactical or weapons officers on a command track find themselves in command of a company at basic training or overseeing advanced training as cadre. The same could be said for any junior officer.

Let's not forget staff college, tours in R&D to give a shooter's perspective, advanced tactical schools, too.

Naval officers can spend a whole lot of time on the beach when they aren't actively shooting at folks.

Indeed, that's exactly why I said, "in some capacity." There are also meaningful and fulfilling civilian positions in the navy. And some Steadholder's wives have been known to be well educated.

A big factor may depend on how Alison's breakthrough in the deficit of male births may come to affect their traditional marriages in the long run, when the time comes that there is pretty much parity in the sexes. At that point, several wives may go the way of the dinosaur. At the risk of setting Grayson back decades and starting a battle of the sexes, and erroneously being charged a chauvinist again, a Steadholder's wife may be needed at home if she is the only one. I suppose a maid would be in order at that point.

But still, nobody is going to be able to talk me out of the notion that a badass crew of Grayson women who are feared by the enemy won't simply be like, like...well like ice cream man! With the cake!

Uh oh, peering under the skin again. That Demon Murphy might try to arrange for a Steadholder's daughter to be giving orders to a Steadholder's wife. I don't imagine the GSN would allow Abigail to Captain a ship with one of her mother's as part of the crew. :o

I told y'all the possibilities the notion would make for storyline are titillating.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:39 pm

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cthia wrote:A big factor may depend on how Alison's breakthrough in the deficit of male births may come to affect their traditional marriages in the long run, when the time comes that there is pretty much parity in the sexes. At that point, several wives may go the way of the dinosaur. At the risk of setting Grayson back decades and starting a battle of the sexes, and erroneously being charged a chauvinist again, a Steadholder's wife may be needed at home if she is the only one. I suppose a maid would be in order at that point.


In that I can agree with you. It is indeed possible that a Steadholder's wife or other household members could serve in the Navy in some civilian capacity, or even be frocked or mustanged to officer.

I just don't think a settled Steadholder's wife (and there are only 70 or so steadings, so not a lot of variability) is going to drop everything and enrol to Saganami Island Academy. So I stand by what I said.

The effect of Allison's gene therapy is going to take a generation to take effect. Until then, all the current living population is skewed 3:1 towards females. That means there should be a lot more of them joining the Navy in the coming years, not less.

But still, nobody is going to be able to talk me out of the notion that a badass crew of Grayson women who are feared by the enemy won't simply be like, like...well like ice cream man! With the cake!


Sure, they'll be feared as much as a ship crewed by commanded by Honor, under Gustav Andermani (the original) as flag officer, with Edward Saganami as her XO, Shannon Foraker as tac witch, and Travis Long as all-around problem solver. Throw in a long-range grav lance as icing on the cake.

It doesn't and won't exist.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:17 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
jtg452 wrote:It depends on whether or not RFC follows his original idea of doing a jump forward in time for the next arc or not.

The original plan had Raoul and his generation taking down the MA.


Unless he changes his mind again, that plan is scrapped. He's already dropped enough hints and a few concrete details indicating so.

That doesn't mean we'll have shorter time jumps, like the 3 years between OBS and HotQ.


Found a video, though it looks like a new video of David explaining it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0q6SOwh0QU&t=320s (How the Honorverse Changed Part 1).

Note how he talks in the conditional: what would have happened if the storyline hadn't changed. How Raoul would have been a junior officer during the hunt for the Alignment (how he'd serve in Tourville's staff, who would have killed his mother).

All through this video, I kept asking myself: where can I get an RMN coffee mug?
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by SharkHunter   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:33 am

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--snipping--
jtg452 wrote:It depends on whether or not RFC follows his original idea of doing a jump forward in time for the next arc or not.
.
.
Based on her bona fides with the RMN and being a Harrington protege (the first marks her as a real pro, the second marks her as special), I can see even the most traditional GSN male officer having a pause before doubting her abilities. And then, there's Mateo looming over her shoulder.

Personally, I think the jump forward scenario has got a little bit of the boot, but only David can decide that. I kinda hope that the whole timeline has changed, and perhaps Raoul, etc. become starring characters in a completely new arc... or an eventual MAlign/Darius escapees vs Harringtons takedown... but meanwhile.

I kinda hope we see Abigail et. al doing a little detached duty with the Eregon/Torch/Maya alliance. Wouldn't it be fun to lend one of the RMN's most dangerous younger tacticians to that mix AND... allow Mateo and Thandi Palane to play in the same sandboxes... in planetary and other similar takedown operations? After all, Grayson does have a grudge against any Mesan related forces because of Oyster Bay. What thinks y'all?
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by Captain Golding   » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 am

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Sure,
I want to see what Abigale gets up to next.

A post on a GSN CA or BC(P) would be nice. One where we see the impact of Steadholder Politics and influence on the Wardroom. There will be the Suck up gange because of who her Father is vs The Traditionalists who will appose and others who Oppose her because of who her Father is. Or just assume she got the post because of who her Father is....

How reformed is the Grayson Army? Since they provide the "Marines" for the GSN I can just imagine some "connected" GSN Officer who's basically sat out the war in a nice safe shore posting now doing his Marine posting because it's good for his CV - the war's over so it should be safe enough right! Of course what can a Woman know about Ground Combat, Marine Operations etc....

After Abigale and Mateo pull the Marines out of a mess his arrogance get them into a few time the loyalties and chain of command will be well confused.

All on a nice show the flag / convoy escort SE out of Grayson towards Torch etc. Various Havenite, ex Havenite and independant star nations along the way and into the Fringe.

Cpt. Golding GSN.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:09 pm

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If Abigail married Indiana Graham, what will that mean for Indiana as far as Grayson? Are there any benefits to marrying a Steadholder's daughter? Will he receive enormous finances? Or other benefits?

Where would they live?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by tlb   » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:23 pm

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cthia wrote:If Abigail married Indiana Graham, what will that mean for Indiana as far as Grayson? Are there any benefits to marrying a Steadholder's daughter? Will he receive enormous finances? Or other benefits?

Where would they live?

It was mentioned in The Service of the Sword that Steadholder Owens is wealthy even by Manticoran standards:
"As such, you rightly enjoy a certain standin' and prominence among the better families of the Star Kingdom. However, I think it would be wise of you t' reflect upon the fact that Ms. Hearns can trace her ancestry in unbroken succession through almost a thousand T-years of history t' the first Steadholder Owens. And that despite the fact that she bears no noble title—beyond, of course, that of 'Miss Owens,' which I've observed she never uses—her birth takes precedence over that of anyone below ducal rank in the Star Kingdom."
Grigovakis swallowed hard, and Oversteegen gave him another wintry smile.
"I'll leave you with one last thought about Ms. Hearns, Mr. Grigovakis," he said. "Your family, as I said, is noted for its wealth. That wealth, however, pales t' insignificance beside the Owens family fortune. We are accustomed t' thinkin' of Grayson as a poor planet, and t' some extent, that's no doubt justified, although I believe you might be surprised if you considered the actual figures and how they've changed over the past ten or fifteen T-years. Steadholder Owens, however, is one of only eighty steadholders . . . and Owens Steading was only the eleventh founded. It's been in existence for nine T-centuries, almost twice as long as the entire Star Kingdom. Steadholder Owens is wealthy, powerful, and unaccustomed t' acceptin' the discourteous treatment of members of his family. Especially its female members. I would be most surprised if Ms. Hearns would ever appeal t' him for assistance in such a minor matter, and I strongly suspect that she would be most upset if she ever discovered that her father had chosen t' take a hand in her affairs. Neither of which, I imagine, would dissuade him in the least. Aristocrats, you know, look after their own."

However it depends upon how much of that is entailed, since she is not the heir to the steading. Still I expect that she will have enough money to live wherever she wants.

I am guessing that he would share her rank, does he become Mister Indiana Graham-Owens?
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:41 am

cthia
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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:If Abigail married Indiana Graham, what will that mean for Indiana as far as Grayson? Are there any benefits to marrying a Steadholder's daughter? Will he receive enormous finances? Or other benefits?

Where would they live?

It was mentioned in The Service of the Sword that Steadholder Owens is wealthy even by Manticoran standards:
"As such, you rightly enjoy a certain standin' and prominence among the better families of the Star Kingdom. However, I think it would be wise of you t' reflect upon the fact that Ms. Hearns can trace her ancestry in unbroken succession through almost a thousand T-years of history t' the first Steadholder Owens. And that despite the fact that she bears no noble title—beyond, of course, that of 'Miss Owens,' which I've observed she never uses—her birth takes precedence over that of anyone below ducal rank in the Star Kingdom."
Grigovakis swallowed hard, and Oversteegen gave him another wintry smile.
"I'll leave you with one last thought about Ms. Hearns, Mr. Grigovakis," he said. "Your family, as I said, is noted for its wealth. That wealth, however, pales t' insignificance beside the Owens family fortune. We are accustomed t' thinkin' of Grayson as a poor planet, and t' some extent, that's no doubt justified, although I believe you might be surprised if you considered the actual figures and how they've changed over the past ten or fifteen T-years. Steadholder Owens, however, is one of only eighty steadholders . . . and Owens Steading was only the eleventh founded. It's been in existence for nine T-centuries, almost twice as long as the entire Star Kingdom. Steadholder Owens is wealthy, powerful, and unaccustomed t' acceptin' the discourteous treatment of members of his family. Especially its female members. I would be most surprised if Ms. Hearns would ever appeal t' him for assistance in such a minor matter, and I strongly suspect that she would be most upset if she ever discovered that her father had chosen t' take a hand in her affairs. Neither of which, I imagine, would dissuade him in the least. Aristocrats, you know, look after their own."

However it depends upon how much of that is entailed, since she is not the heir to the steading. Still I expect that she will have enough money to live wherever she wants.

I am guessing that he would share her rank, does he become Mister Indiana Graham-Owens?

LOL Anyone on Grayson, like maids would probably refer to him as Mister Owens. I do wonder what his title would actually be though. I don't doubt that money wouldn't be an object but what is Indiana's net worth? If he is penniless, that might not sit well with Steadholder Owens.

I always wondered what Hamish's title would be if he lived on Grayson. Or if he does and Honor remarried and lived on Grayson, what her new husband's title would be if he had none previously.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by tlb   » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:47 am

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cthia wrote:Anyone on Grayson, like maids would probably refer to him as Mister Owens. I do wonder what his title would actually be though. I don't doubt that money wouldn't be an object but what is Indiana's net worth? If he is penniless, that might not sit well with Steadholder Owens.

I wonder if "Mister Owens" is reserved for Abigail's brothers or would he qualify as a brother-in-law?

Even if the successful revolution restores the assets of Indiana's father; he would still be comparatively penniless; but a father that lets his daughter do the untraditional thing of joining the navy, would be unlikely to stand in the way of her love.
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