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Abigale Hearns

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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:26 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:What would be even better is Abigail as CO of her own ship with a Grayson woman as XO and featuring several other Grayson women in key positions like tactical, navigation and engineering. A Grayson ship making a name for itself. What on earth would her nickname be. The Judgement? LOL


Forget it, there aren't enough Grayson female officers to do that. Not in the time it will take Abigail to reach CO position.

Given the size of the GSN, the only way any two Grayson-born female officers in the next few years will end up aboard the same ship is if they're assigned because they're women, instead of taking into account their skills. Someone probably justified assigning both Cecilie and Claire to the Manasseh because the ship had been fitted with berthing for women, but that excuse won't hold for long.

At any rate, the GSN can carry the gauntlet in storyline for a while. Grayson shall no longer be considered the weak link in the Alliance's chain.


"Shall no longer?" They not only haven't been that since 1906 PD, they were the strongest link between 1915 and 1920.

The sub series can advance the timeline five or more years itself, laying the groundwork and setting the stage for the mainline novels to advance it another ten or more. There's no reason Honor's offspring can't pick up the gauntlet mother threw down in the Sol system. Twenty years is also plenty of time to fill a Grayson ship with female snotties and a few officers with some real mettle. Offscreen is a powerful literary device. Besides, always keep hope alive by dreaming, what was yesterday, the impossible dream.

Remember when Get Smart carried a phone in his shoe and we all dreamed that impossible dream. My how a little time changes things.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by BrightSoul   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:52 am

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Depending on how Cloak of Evil ends its entirely possible that we could see Midshipman Harrington assigned to a GSN Cruiser or Destroyer under the command of Abigail. Its not like they couldn't do a longer time jump after that story with the right ending ie we know they're out there just not where.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:33 am

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Brigade XO wrote:Claire Bedlam Lecroix and Cecelie Rustin in the short story Obligated Service were NOT the only Grayson women going into service nor were they the only ones who went through Saganami Island. At one point Claire is recalling (in her head-for out background) that Honor arranged with Manticore for the Steadholders to nominate (I think it was up to 6 each) female candidates for the Island and Clare was one of a couple from her Stedding to go but that- in her Steddings case- the other women dropped out. But there were others and though we only see Cecelie because she was already on the ship Claire was transfered to.

Not clear how many enlisted women are Graysons on GSN ships but at the time of Oyster Bay there is at least one small crop of female Grayson Officers who at that point are ensigns and graduated from the The Island. We just haven't seen others yet.


We don't know that they all graduated. I got the impression that they didn't: the only two Grayson women who are officers and serving on GSN ships were on the same ship for berthing accommodation reasons.

Even if there were 20 of them today, that's what, 0.1% of the service? Let's make a simple calculation: the GSN has about 120 SD(P)s and 24 CLACs. Each of those ships has a complement of three dozen officers; each CLAC carries 124 LACs, each of which have 4 officers. So that's 17088 officers above the wall. They also have about 200 ships below the wall and let's average to a dozen and a half officers in each. That's 20688 officers in active service in the GSN.

So, no, the chance that you're going to see all 20 on the same ship, if they are assigned where their skills can be best used and best nurtured, is zero.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:21 pm

cthia
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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Claire Bedlam Lecroix and Cecelie Rustin in the short story Obligated Service were NOT the only Grayson women going into service nor were they the only ones who went through Saganami Island. At one point Claire is recalling (in her head-for out background) that Honor arranged with Manticore for the Steadholders to nominate (I think it was up to 6 each) female candidates for the Island and Clare was one of a couple from her Stedding to go but that- in her Steddings case- the other women dropped out. But there were others and though we only see Cecelie because she was already on the ship Claire was transfered to.

Not clear how many enlisted women are Graysons on GSN ships but at the time of Oyster Bay there is at least one small crop of female Grayson Officers who at that point are ensigns and graduated from the The Island. We just haven't seen others yet.


We don't know that they all graduated. I got the impression that they didn't: the only two Grayson women who are officers and serving on GSN ships were on the same ship for berthing accommodation reasons.

Even if there were 20 of them today, that's what, 0.1% of the service? Let's make a simple calculation: the GSN has about 120 SD(P)s and 24 CLACs. Each of those ships has a complement of three dozen officers; each CLAC carries 124 LACs, each of which have 4 officers. So that's 17088 officers above the wall. They also have about 200 ships below the wall and let's average to a dozen and a half officers in each. That's 20688 officers in active service in the GSN.

So, no, the chance that you're going to see all 20 on the same ship, if they are assigned where their skills can be best used and best nurtured, is zero.

I won't argue with your logic, or math. That doesn't change my notion that if it did happen, it would offer amazing possibilities for storyline. Part of the impetus behind my thinking is Grayson has come a long way from its once male dominated attitudes. Honor, and again Abigail as a Steadholder's daughter, have paved many new inroads on Grayson. There simply has to be other females from Grayson to solidify the notion. Surely Abigail isn't simply a fluke.

And, if so many Grayson women DID end up on one ship, perhaps even a Steadholder's wife will enter the navy, in some capacity, as well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:25 pm

cthia
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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:What would be even better is Abigail as CO of her own ship with a Grayson woman as XO and featuring several other Grayson women in key positions like tactical, navigation and engineering. A Grayson ship making a name for itself. What on earth would her nickname be. The Judgement? LOL


Forget it, there aren't enough Grayson female officers to do that. Not in the time it will take Abigail to reach CO position.

Given the size of the GSN, the only way any two Grayson-born female officers in the next few years will end up aboard the same ship is if they're assigned because they're women, instead of taking into account their skills. Someone probably justified assigning both Cecilie and Claire to the Manasseh because the ship had been fitted with berthing for women, but that excuse won't hold for long.

At any rate, the GSN can carry the gauntlet in storyline for a while. Grayson shall no longer be considered the weak link in the Alliance's chain.


"Shall no longer?" They not only haven't been that since 1906 PD, they were the strongest link between 1915 and 1920.

I know that. You know that. By Honor's musings, she knew that. But I don't think other entities in the Galaxy knew that, until they attacked.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:34 pm

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cthia wrote:I won't argue with your logic, or math. That doesn't change my notion that if it did happen, it would offer amazing possibilities for storyline. Part of the impetus behind my thinking is Grayson has come a long way from its once male dominated attitudes. Honor, and again Abigail as a Steadholder's daughter, have paved many new inroads on Grayson. There simply has to be other females from Grayson to solidify the notion. Surely Abigail isn't simply a fluke.


Indeed and I do hope there are more of them.

But it's exactly because the attitudes have changed that you won't see a ship of only women. If the attitudes changed and they are treated as equals, then they can't be singled out in pairs or groups because of "women sensibilities." I really don't envy the trail-blazers, who are trying to break the mould: they're going to be met with scepticism, distrust, outright disdain, overcompensation, and everything in-between.

And, if so many Grayson women DID end up on one ship, perhaps even a Steadholder's wife will enter the navy, in some capacity, as well.


Unless that Steadholder has been practising near-Masadan style of marrying really young women, it's likely to be the opposite: a Navy officer marries a Steadholder.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:05 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 12874
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:I won't argue with your logic, or math. That doesn't change my notion that if it did happen, it would offer amazing possibilities for storyline. Part of the impetus behind my thinking is Grayson has come a long way from its once male dominated attitudes. Honor, and again Abigail as a Steadholder's daughter, have paved many new inroads on Grayson. There simply has to be other females from Grayson to solidify the notion. Surely Abigail isn't simply a fluke.


Indeed and I do hope there are more of them.

But it's exactly because the attitudes have changed that you won't see a ship of only women. If the attitudes changed and they are treated as equals, then they can't be singled out in pairs or groups because of "women sensibilities." I really don't envy the trail-blazers, who are trying to break the mould: they're going to be met with scepticism, distrust, outright disdain, overcompensation, and everything in-between.

And, if so many Grayson women DID end up on one ship, perhaps even a Steadholder's wife will enter the navy, in some capacity, as well.


Unless that Steadholder has been practising near-Masadan style of marrying really young women, it's likely to be the opposite: a Navy officer marries a Steadholder.

I was thinking more of...the women may single themselves out, out of convenience. Women Power! But alas, I just realized a downside to it. It has something to do with putting all of your eggs in one basket. If that ship is destroyed, it could send their society back in time.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:20 am

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cthia wrote:I was thinking more of...the women may single themselves out, out of convenience. Women Power! But alas, I just realized a downside to it. It has something to do with putting all of your eggs in one basket. If that ship is destroyed, it could send their society back in time.


There is at least one good reason for a female officer to request a junior be assigned to her that has nothing to do with her skills: if she knows something about how the other is being treated and that isn't being written to the official files and jackets. Honor did that with Andrea Jaruwalsky because she knew what kind of officer Santino was, though of course in this case sex or gender were not a factor (Santino was an equal-opportunity offender).

So in that sense I could see a cluster of GSN female officers, instead of the distribution that random chance would allow for. But not a full concentration, because female officers are not the only ones who can detect this kind of bad behaviour from bigoted, superior officers.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by jtg452   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:03 pm

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You're forgetting that all assignments in a Navy aren't to ships!

Ship posting are often the exception rather than the rule in peacetime navies for some MOS.

You have dockyards, depots, logistic bases, training schools, stations, planet bound bases, staff and headquarters commands, etc... that all need bodies.

Engineers become yard dogs for a while or end up assigned to a ship builiding facility, junior tactical or weapons officers on a command track find themselves in command of a company at basic training or overseeing advanced training as cadre. The same could be said for any junior officer.

Let's not forget staff college, tours in R&D to give a shooter's perspective, advanced tactical schools, too.

Naval officers can spend a whole lot of time on the beach when they aren't actively shooting at folks.
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Re: Abigale Hearns
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:55 pm

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jtg452 wrote:You're forgetting that all assignments in a Navy aren't to ships!


Indeed I was!

This just makes it even less likely the GSN will be able to concentrate its native-born female officers on a ship for a generation.
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