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Treecat Social Dynamics

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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:09 am

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If the experiment is attempted to measure speed of thought we should utilize the treecats with the most powerful minds. That would be the Memory Singers.*

I've thought about it a bit, and instead of using a message to send the distance, we should use an emotion, since it seems to be more basic a constituent in the treecat's communication. Either fear, or love, or horror should be used. Those emotions are felt instantaneously. Therefore, the beginning Treecat can start the cascade effect by singing the most powerful notes in the Yawata Strike. I think it will be felt, picked up, sensed immediately, as some twins seem to have this instantaneous ability here on Earth. Unlimited by distance.

*Saber964 and I did some initial research on the most powerful mindglows. We never completed this most crude, shot-in-the-dark science. But it is quite interesting nonetheless. It proceeds as follows . . .


If there was a telempathic measuring device (telempathometer) that measures the telempathic strength (TS) from (1 to 10) where would Honor fit on that scale?

Perceived telempathic strengths*
  • Beth = 0
  • Treecats = 8*
  • Memory Singers = 9-10
  • Honor = X. Is X > 5?
  • Raoul = Y. Y = ?

* Of course, I can only guestimate Nimitz' telempathic strength as opposed to a Memory Singer's. And I think it's a safe assumption that Raoul(TS) > Honor(TS).

I am assuming that telempathic strength does not vary between non memory singers since I do not recall appropriate textev, which may be incorrect, given → Memory Singer's (TS) varies.

Telempathic strength between Memory Singers does vary. ISTR sharing pillow talk with textev that Samantha is one of the most powerful Memory Singers?

The TS of Nimitz is interesting. If TS could be measured, would Nimitz' TS be less than what it was before he became mind blind? Conceivably -- since he lost his ability to send -- Nimitz' receiver has gained more strength. Considering the documented evidence that in the face of losing one of the natural senses, a human's remaining senses kick in to compensate. E.g., at the loss of sight a human's hearing becomes excessively stronger.

*I, We, are flying M ND BL ND, therefore the author's mileage may vary. Originally I placed the treecats at 9, but decided to recalibrate them to an 8. To make room for Memory Singers whose TS would undoubtedly measure below Samantha's yet greater than a "normal" 'Cat's.

ldwechsler wrote:I would guess anyone bonded would be better on the telempathic scale than 0 and that includes Elizabeth. Pavel Young might be a zero or into negative numbers but I doubt the cats would adopt someone at 0.
cthia wrote:I would tend to agree with you ldwechsler, but in the absence of textev, I can't rightfully adopt that stance -- since that would be crossing the line into the author's territory. It does seem logical that Beth would develop some TS. However, we haven't been formally presented with that fact. Perhaps Beth doesn't eat her celery, or even likes it.

Also, mathematically, Ø is NaN. It has always been but a placeholder.
saber964 wrote:From my reading of the text. Nimitz and Samantha probably have the highest telepathic abilities of the treecats. Remember they both have made both types of bondings. An adoption bond raises a normal treecats mental abilities to nearly that of a singers

IIRC the levels of telepathic abilities are in ascending order.

Normal treecats
Hunters
Scouts
Mind Healers
Memory Singer

Mating raises the abilities to a higher degree. IIRC Nimitz's mind voice is as strong or nearly as strong as a memory singers and Samantha's mental abilities is got to be off the charts.
cthia wrote:Thanks-a-million celery stalks for the input! I completely forgot about that, and I also notice I failed to put Nimitz on the scale. I was undecided. But in light of your post...

Perceived Telempathic Strengths*
  • Samantha = 10+
  • Memory Singers = 9-10
  • Nimitz = 9-10
  • Mind Healers = 8
  • Scouts = 7
  • Hunters = 6
  • Normal Treecats = 5

Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, is that textev before or after Nimitz' unfortunate scrape with fanatics?

cthia wrote:Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, is that textev before or after Nimitz' unfortunate scrape with fanatics?
saber964 wrote:Before, I took the information from CoW.

But I think Nimitz is slightly higher than singer level like 11 and Samantha in the 12-13 range. Remember Nimitz is both adopted and mated like Samantha.


cthia wrote:In light of saber's recent posts, the plot is settling...

Perceived Telempathic Strengths (TS) [Scale = Ø—1Ø]*
  • Samantha = 12-13
  • Memory Singers = 9-1Ø
  • Nimitz = 9-11*
  • Mind Healers = 8
  • Scouts = 7
  • Hunters = 6
  • Normal Treecats = 5
  • Beth = Ø

[*]Note: Normal Bonded Human/Treecat = unrated

Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, I think Nimitz' rating remains unclear, factoring in his being M ND BL ND.

Also, your input shows the need for treecats who are bonded to humans. Where do you suppose they would fit?

I do wish we had that telempathometer. There is an older version called a Webometer. It's an aged biologically powered analog version that's one-of-a-kind, but insanely accurate and trustworthy.



*Plot likely to settle further.


cthia wrote:Inference:
  1. Honor TS < 5 (< 50 %) [bottom half percentile]
  2. Raoul TS > 5 (> 50 %) [top half percentile]
saber964 wrote:I can see a 50% increase in TS for Human/Treecat adoptions and probably the same for ordinary mated pairs.
cthia wrote:saber964,

As soon as I figure out the best way to plot/represent the new data, I shall. Your input is what made this possible.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:25 am

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Posts: 6730
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cthia wrote:If the experiment is attempted to measure speed of thought we should utilize the treecats with the most powerful minds. That would be the Memory Singers.*

I've thought about it a bit, and instead of using a message to send the distance, we should use an emotion, since it seems to be more basic a constituent in the treecat's communication. Either fear, or love, or horror should be used. Those emotions are felt instantaneously. Therefore, the beginning Treecat can start the cascade effect by singing the most powerful notes in the Yawata Strike. I think it will be felt, picked up, sensed immediately, as some twins seem to have this instantaneous ability here on Earth. Unlimited by distance.

*Saber964 and I did some initial research on the most powerful mindglows. We never completed this most crude, shot-in-the-dark science. But it is quite interesting nonetheless. It proceeds as follows . . .


If there was a telempathic measuring device (telempathometer) that measures the telempathic strength (TS) from (1 to 10) where would Honor fit on that scale?

Perceived telempathic strengths*
  • Beth = 0
  • Treecats = 8*
  • Memory Singers = 9-10
  • Honor = X. Is X > 5?
  • Raoul = Y. Y = ?

* Of course, I can only guestimate Nimitz' telempathic strength as opposed to a Memory Singer's. And I think it's a safe assumption that Raoul(TS) > Honor(TS).

I am assuming that telempathic strength does not vary between non memory singers since I do not recall appropriate textev, which may be incorrect, given → Memory Singer's (TS) varies.

Telempathic strength between Memory Singers does vary. ISTR sharing pillow talk with textev that Samantha is one of the most powerful Memory Singers?

The TS of Nimitz is interesting. If TS could be measured, would Nimitz' TS be less than what it was before he became mind blind? Conceivably -- since he lost his ability to send -- Nimitz' receiver has gained more strength. Considering the documented evidence that in the face of losing one of the natural senses, a human's remaining senses kick in to compensate. E.g., at the loss of sight a human's hearing becomes excessively stronger.

*I, We, are flying M ND BL ND, therefore the author's mileage may vary. Originally I placed the treecats at 9, but decided to recalibrate them to an 8. To make room for Memory Singers whose TS would undoubtedly measure below Samantha's yet greater than a "normal" 'Cat's.

ldwechsler wrote:I would guess anyone bonded would be better on the telempathic scale than 0 and that includes Elizabeth. Pavel Young might be a zero or into negative numbers but I doubt the cats would adopt someone at 0.
cthia wrote:I would tend to agree with you ldwechsler, but in the absence of textev, I can't rightfully adopt that stance -- since that would be crossing the line into the author's territory. It does seem logical that Beth would develop some TS. However, we haven't been formally presented with that fact. Perhaps Beth doesn't eat her celery, or even likes it.

Also, mathematically, Ø is NaN. It has always been but a placeholder.
saber964 wrote:From my reading of the text. Nimitz and Samantha probably have the highest telepathic abilities of the treecats. Remember they both have made both types of bondings. An adoption bond raises a normal treecats mental abilities to nearly that of a singers

IIRC the levels of telepathic abilities are in ascending order.

Normal treecats
Hunters
Scouts
Mind Healers
Memory Singer

Mating raises the abilities to a higher degree. IIRC Nimitz's mind voice is as strong or nearly as strong as a memory singers and Samantha's mental abilities is got to be off the charts.
cthia wrote:Thanks-a-million celery stalks for the input! I completely forgot about that, and I also notice I failed to put Nimitz on the scale. I was undecided. But in light of your post...

Perceived Telempathic Strengths*
  • Samantha = 10+
  • Memory Singers = 9-10
  • Nimitz = 9-10
  • Mind Healers = 8
  • Scouts = 7
  • Hunters = 6
  • Normal Treecats = 5

Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, is that textev before or after Nimitz' unfortunate scrape with fanatics?

cthia wrote:Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, is that textev before or after Nimitz' unfortunate scrape with fanatics?
saber964 wrote:Before, I took the information from CoW.

But I think Nimitz is slightly higher than singer level like 11 and Samantha in the 12-13 range. Remember Nimitz is both adopted and mated like Samantha.


cthia wrote:In light of saber's recent posts, the plot is settling...

Perceived Telempathic Strengths (TS) [Scale = Ø—1Ø]*
  • Samantha = 12-13
  • Memory Singers = 9-1Ø
  • Nimitz = 9-11*
  • Mind Healers = 8
  • Scouts = 7
  • Hunters = 6
  • Normal Treecats = 5
  • Beth = Ø

[*]Note: Normal Bonded Human/Treecat = unrated

Which still begs the question of Honor's and Raoul's place on the scale. In light of this, it would logically appear that Honor TS < 5.

Saber, I think Nimitz' rating remains unclear, factoring in his being M ND BL ND.

Also, your input shows the need for treecats who are bonded to humans. Where do you suppose they would fit?

I do wish we had that telempathometer. There is an older version called a Webometer. It's an aged biologically powered analog version that's one-of-a-kind, but insanely accurate and trustworthy.



*Plot likely to settle further.


cthia wrote:Inference:
  1. Honor TS < 5 (< 50 %) [bottom half percentile]
  2. Raoul TS > 5 (> 50 %) [top half percentile]
saber964 wrote:I can see a 50% increase in TS for Human/Treecat adoptions and probably the same for ordinary mated pairs.
cthia wrote:saber964,

As soon as I figure out the best way to plot/represent the new data, I shall. Your input is what made this possible.

Definitely interesting ideas.
But I agree we're flying blind in the land of fun and interesting speculation.

I would throw out the one caveat that "power" has many meanings in colloquial speech, so it isn't guaranteed that the descriptions of treecat mental power were referring to transmission range; though they certainly could be. It's possible however that the power of a memory singer is related instead to the depth and vibrancy of memory and emotion they're able to share; or the number of cats they can share with simultaneously, rather than necessarily how far away they can share. (Or maybe it's all those things; as you say we're flying blind :D)
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:23 pm

cthia
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Posts: 12869
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Jonathan_S wrote:Definitely interesting ideas.
But I agree we're flying blind in the land of fun and interesting speculation.

I would throw out the one caveat that "power" has many meanings in colloquial speech, so it isn't guaranteed that the descriptions of treecat mental power were referring to transmission range; though they certainly could be. It's possible however that the power of a memory singer is related instead to the depth and vibrancy of memory and emotion they're able to share; or the number of cats they can share with simultaneously, rather than necessarily how far away they can share. (Or maybe it's all those things; as you say we're flying blind :D)

I agree Jonathan. I asked the same thing somewhere else, of whether Honor will one day be able to communicate with Nimitz and Raoul simultaneously. And vice versa for Raoul. I refer to it as bandwidth, and that could certainly account for the various power ratings.

I would think any Cat can communicate with many Cats at once. I'd be surprised if the ability is limited between two cats in general. All animals can communicate with everyone else in range, as far as I know. If Memory Singers vary, then it seems it HAS to be a factor of range, or bandwidth - transmitting more information at once - or both.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:46 am

cthia
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Posts: 12869
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

I still can't fathom Beth not being on the telempathic scale. She has been bonded for so long and she's also a genie. I would be ready to entertain a theory that Beth does have abilities but keep them classified, for reasons as good as Honor's for classifying certain abilities of hers like her tendency to give you the finger.

But if she does have abilities and they are better to remain classified, that makes me as curious as her cat.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:52 am

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cthia wrote:I still can't fathom Beth not being on the telempathic scale. She has been bonded for so long and she's also a genie. I would be ready to entertain a theory that Beth does have abilities but keep them classified, for reasons as good as Honor's for classifying certain abilities of hers like her tendency to give you the finger.

But if she does have abilities and they are better to remain classified, that makes me as curious as her cat.


IIRC, there are two types of human-treecat bonds. In the first, the human partner knows that the bond exists. In the second, the human partner knows where the treecat is. AFAIK, the Harringtons have always been type 2 (though perhaps Honor has graduated to an, so far, unique type 3). I don't believe there has been any indications of whether Elizabeth knows where Ariel is.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:31 pm

cthia
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Posts: 12869
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
cthia wrote:I still can't fathom Beth not being on the telempathic scale. She has been bonded for so long and she's also a genie. I would be ready to entertain a theory that Beth does have abilities but keep them classified, for reasons as good as Honor's for classifying certain abilities of hers like her tendency to give you the finger.

But if she does have abilities and they are better to remain classified, that makes me as curious as her cat.


IIRC, there are two types of human-treecat bonds. In the first, the human partner knows that the bond exists. In the second, the human partner knows where the treecat is. AFAIK, the Harringtons have always been type 2 (though perhaps Honor has graduated to an, so far, unique type 3). I don't believe there has been any indications of whether Elizabeth knows where Ariel is.

Aren't all bonds comprised of the first? Every human knows the bond exists. It's like TREECAT LIGHTNING!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:25 pm

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Posts: 1592
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cthia wrote:Aren't all bonds comprised of the first? Every human knows the bond exists. It's like TREECAT LIGHTNING!


I think Robert meant that Type 2 includes the features of Type 1, and so would Type 3 with Type 2.
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:41 am

Robert_A_Woodward
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 309
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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Aren't all bonds comprised of the first? Every human knows the bond exists. It's like TREECAT LIGHTNING!


I think Robert meant that Type 2 includes the features of Type 1, and so would Type 3 with Type 2.


Yes, I forgot the word "also" when describing the type 2 bond.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:16 am

cthia
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Posts: 12869
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
cthia wrote:I still can't fathom Beth not being on the telempathic scale. She has been bonded for so long and she's also a genie. I would be ready to entertain a theory that Beth does have abilities but keep them classified, for reasons as good as Honor's for classifying certain abilities of hers like her tendency to give you the finger.

But if she does have abilities and they are better to remain classified, that makes me as curious as her cat.


IIRC, there are two types of human-treecat bonds. In the first, the human partner knows that the bond exists. In the second, the human partner knows where the treecat is. AFAIK, the Harringtons have always been type 2 (though perhaps Honor has graduated to an, so far, unique type 3). I don't believe there has been any indications of whether Elizabeth knows where Ariel is.

Nope, there has been no indication - but Beth could be keeping that classified. It is interesting, as you say, that Honor may be a unique type 3. We also can add Raoul as a unique type 4. So, there's plenty of room for Beth to be playing possum. Especially since she wouldn't want to open a can of worms regarding her status as a genie, or which cocktail of genie. So we have to assume more types are possible, certainly if Raoul is any indication. I posited some time ago that we would have to consider what could have been with Raoul if Honor had conceived with a partner who was also Meyerdahl B, or a lost Alpha line.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Social Dynamics
Post by cthia   » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:32 am

cthia
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Posts: 12869
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We don't have a good definition of sentience, nor do we have a good meter stick to measure it. It is the same with consciousness - which includes sentience. So, there will always be a danger in categorizing species other than ourselves because we tend to take humans as the baseline.

Interestingly enough, we are venturing into the realm of philosophy and the realm of the great thinkers. One position from philosophy throws in the belief of a higher power to be the deciding factor of true consciousness and sentience, which would set man apart from the rest. It also coincides with the Bible regarding God's gift to man which is the spirit of man, the Holy Spirit, and God's decree for man to go forth and take dominion over the Earth. But I digress.

Does anyone, anyone who is at least familiar with the Bible and it's teachings, consider the time before Babel when man spoke one language? It is said man became so advanced because of one common language that God decided to scatter the languages amongst the winds. No more common language. You all know the story of Babel.

Treecats speak one language - scratch that, the author says it isn't a language - or rather they have a common "vehicle" which can only be described as communication. Since they have not advanced as much in the sciences, perhaps that is a true indication their communication isn't language.

At any rate, with only one standard "language" - instead of two or more to confound understanding - why hasn't the species advanced themselves further and taken to the stars, and yadda? Does the answer to my question lie in the error of judging advancement by space travel, instead of the treecat's apparent peace with one another? Perhaps treecats are the more advanced, having gotten the true existential priorities of life correct and created their own Shangri-La. That is until two-legs arrived and disturbed the peace.

Are treecats spiritual? Is the notion of a higher power beyond a treecat's understanding?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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