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Treecat Counter

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Treecat Counter
Post by MC1560   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:31 pm

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The Alignment think the treecats are a problem. You think that somebody will come up with something to counter the treecat's telepathy.
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:50 pm

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MC1560 wrote:The Alignment think the treecats are a problem. You think that somebody will come up with something to counter the treecat's telepathy.


I don't think they know just yet that treecats are a problem. Last we heard the Detweilers talking, they had no idea how the Manties had purged the moles from their ranks. Given that the Solly method will come out, this will also throw the scent off treecats for a while, suggesting that the Manties and Havenites did something similar that triggered suicide nanites.

But it might eventually come out. The question then will be what can they do? Without capturing treecats to figure out how the telepathy works it will be very difficult. And even then there's no guarantee, since the Manties haven't figured out either (though granted they haven't experimented with treecats in laboratory conditions either).

Capturing a treecat is not as easy as it seems. Manpower has been trying to do that for five centuries without success. Treecats are intelligent enough and can avoid capture by a variety of devices. They also seem to be able to suicide at will, so their value as a live specimen is very limited. On the other hand, with the number of treecats now outside of Sphinx having increased by orders of magnitude in the last 10 years, it might become possible.

As for what it might be, it could be that some materials can shield treecat mindglow perceptions and communications, like lead is a good shield against high-energy photons. There may also be a way to jam it, by producing a high-intensity noise in the appropriate frequency and medium. But neither is likely to be stealthy or even portable for the next decade or two. So you may prevent treecat perception, at the expense of saying "here's something to hide."
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:15 pm

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Do note though, that if they capture a Cat, other options are available to the MA. For one, they can clone the Cat, then they can study them at will.

Also note, they can acquire a Cat's DNA at will, as well. Whether or not the nanite will work on a Cat is what interests me. The notion of a Catassassin is interesting. They'd also have to find out about their need for celery.

A helmet like what's worn by Magneto? :lol: Worn by all RFers? :lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by Cartref   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:53 pm

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Actually the alignment have captured treecats in the past, its just none of the Treecats stayed alive for a long time.

This is mention in a discussion between Albrecht Detweiler and his son Colin (I think).

I thought that this might have been referenced in one of the Stephanie Harrington Books, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

Also in the first Stephanie Harrison books the villain of the piece managers to capture a number of treecats, using traps in the trees
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by tonyz   » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:52 pm

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Cartref wrote:Actually the alignment have captured treecats in the past, its just none of the Treecats stayed alive for a long time.


And while they have treecat DNA, I strongly suspect that a lot of telepathic/empathic skill is learned from other treecats; just cloning treecats won't give you an insight into culture or ethics or the extent of their empathic reach, any more than cloning Honor would automatically give you a tactical genius.
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:36 pm

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Treecats have been shown to react poorly to people who are trying to capture them. The earlier mention of remote traps as a way to capture and possibly incapaistate trapped treecats (so the trapper is able to safely remove a treecat from the trap) may not be as effective as it was when first tried.
Treecats have activly entered the fight againt the Alignment and we have seen that memory singers can spread the word far and wide once information becomes available. Pity (almost) somebody who takes a run at trying to grab one of them on Grason as most of them are clustered in the Harrington Stedholder's household. The one with the Protedtor's family is also fairly well guarded and we can be reasonably certain that the Portector's Armsmen have been given enough information so that if someone catches the attention of "their" treecat with evil intentions they will react to the cat's warning.

If it hasn't already been done, young treecats should probably be given information about the possiblity of people specificaly looking to capture them. What we have seen is the research Honor has done about bonded treecats rejecting their "person" if they were involved in crimes.
That doesn't exclude the possiblity of a cloned treecat - totaly isolated from adults of the species- being able to be raised in captivity but you have to wonder if one raised in that isolation is going to develope the abilities segrigated from other's of it's kind to the point where it would be useful to the Alignment. Of course the Alignment labs can do a lot of research on such a cat but how much of that would the cat stand for without reacting "badly" when they are consinutaly subjected to all sorts of invasive work.

And, yes, cloning a treecat is going to take some doing as the Alignment will have to figure out the additions to the diet which allows them develop the sensitivity. Clelery is one thing but the Sphinx plant that the treecats have always had in their diet would still need to be identified and then propitaged for an additional piece of the diet. So far we haven't seen anybody doing research on purple thorn as to what it does and doesn't have in common with celery that makes the difference. Even if research has been done, it is possibly only avalable to Forest Service members or staff. No discussion about it being shared with Honor or any other presently bonded humans. Honor, and her father and possibly a few others have any of the details of the injury ( and where it is located on Nimitz) that caused his problem in loosing his ability to use the telepathic link so that info is tightly held.
Now that a lot of cats have been learning sign-language, Nimitz won't stand out as much because an observer would have to make the connection that he was somehow damaged physically that took the telepathy away. But not the empathic ability, that is still there.

As soon as the "Solly" method of finding Alignment moles and agents spreads wider, that will further throw off the lines of thinking. Somehow I don't see the Alignment starting to not seed thier agents (both actual Alignment and people who are more or less recruited as 3rd parties) with the auto-suicide by "natural" causes as it has been quite effective. What any initial reports are going to show is that various security agencies (like the SL Department of Justice) have started to confront people and that triggers the nanite but at least initialay that is going to mostly indicate that the agencies now know that someone (even if they don't mention the Alighment by name) had decided that rolling up moles and leaks by having them more or less spontaneously die under questioning is still a great way to try and clean house. Sure, they want to follow the chains but the more they prune them back, the safer their organziations will be.
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:34 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:That doesn't exclude the possiblity of a cloned treecat - totaly isolated from adults of the species- being able to be raised in captivity but you have to wonder if one raised in that isolation is going to develope the abilities segrigated from other's of it's kind to the point where it would be useful to the Alignment. Of course the Alignment labs can do a lot of research on such a cat but how much of that would the cat stand for without reacting "badly" when they are consinutaly subjected to all sorts of invasive work.


Cloning a treecat will not yield a treecat who knows how to read mind glows any more than cloning a mummy will give us someone who speaks Ancient Egyptian. They'll have the equipment, but since so far no one seems to know what the transmission medium is, it doesn't seem that the MAlign would be able to even produce the necessary stimuli.
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:53 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:That doesn't exclude the possiblity of a cloned treecat - totaly isolated from adults of the species- being able to be raised in captivity but you have to wonder if one raised in that isolation is going to develope the abilities segrigated from other's of it's kind to the point where it would be useful to the Alignment. Of course the Alignment labs can do a lot of research on such a cat but how much of that would the cat stand for without reacting "badly" when they are consinutaly subjected to all sorts of invasive work.


Cloning a treecat will not yield a treecat who knows how to read mind glows any more than cloning a mummy will give us someone who speaks Ancient Egyptian. They'll have the equipment, but since so far no one seems to know what the transmission medium is, it doesn't seem that the MAlign would be able to even produce the necessary stimuli.

No chance I'm going to man the forts against another attack on whether the Cat's form of communication constitutes language or not. I'll let that sleeping dog lie after David and I launched mortar rounds on the subject.

But, would an alien need for a cloned human to be able to talk to study the mechanism? Or to think to study the brain? Even if the Cat is alive and communicating with another, the mechanism still has to be localized. Perhaps easier with the process active, but totally necessary?

Besides, I disagree that cloned Cats who are fed celery won't eventually communicate with each other. Unless the process is spiritual or metaphysical. Perhaps that can't be cloned.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by munroburton   » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:21 am

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tonyz wrote:
Cartref wrote:Actually the alignment have captured treecats in the past, its just none of the Treecats stayed alive for a long time.


And while they have treecat DNA, I strongly suspect that a lot of telepathic/empathic skill is learned from other treecats; just cloning treecats won't give you an insight into culture or ethics or the extent of their empathic reach, any more than cloning Honor would automatically give you a tactical genius.


Aye. When Honor's child was being grown in a tube, they were playing audio recordings of her voice and others' to simulate the experience of a real womb. There is no way to simulate this for mindglows and mindvoices. It's not really known how much difference this kind of prenatal nurture(or the lack of it) makes, but I imagine it's significant for treecats.

Without it, the cloned treecats might still be able to sense and communicate with each other, but they would be starting from scratch. If the clones are allowed to breed naturally, each subsequent generation could improve the quality of their new language and expand their culture.

Very basic concepts might re-appear in the same way Sphinxian treecats evolved them - such as "water", for example - but the cloned cats in isolation should end up with a very different language, which would be almost incomprehensible on Sphinx.
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Re: Treecat Counter
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:29 am

cthia
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tonyz wrote:
Cartref wrote:Actually the alignment have captured treecats in the past, its just none of the Treecats stayed alive for a long time.


And while they have treecat DNA, I strongly suspect that a lot of telepathic/empathic skill is learned from other treecats; just cloning treecats won't give you an insight into culture or ethics or the extent of their empathic reach, any more than cloning Honor would automatically give you a tactical genius.


munroburton wrote:Aye. When Honor's child was being grown in a tube, they were playing audio recordings of her voice and others' to simulate the experience of a real womb. There is no way to simulate this for mindglows and mindvoices. It's not really known how much difference this kind of prenatal nurture(or the lack of it) makes, but I imagine it's significant for treecats.

Without it, the cloned treecats might still be able to sense and communicate with each other, but they would be starting from scratch. If the clones are allowed to breed naturally, each subsequent generation could improve the quality of their new language and expand their culture.

Very basic concepts might re-appear in the same way Sphinxian treecats evolved them - such as "water", for example - but the cloned cats in isolation should end up with a very different language, which would be almost incomprehensible on Sphinx.

Intuitively one would think, but our dear author says no. Beware the mortar rounds in that thread.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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