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Collin's assassination list

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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:00 pm

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It is hard to think anyone who has escaped the MA is not automatically on the hit list, even if not at the top. The MA is like the mob. The only way out is to die out or be culled. Which means, Simoes, Jeremy X, and Harahap.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:07 pm

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I wonder how Grayson would respond to an assasination by a foreign policy. All of their assassinations or atempts have been domestic in nature. Is Grayson the only polity who has not been the victim of an assassination? I don't think Beowulf has either.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:33 pm

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cthia wrote:I wonder how Grayson would respond to an assasination by a foreign policy. All of their assassinations or atempts have been domestic in nature. Is Grayson the only polity who has not been the victim of an assassination? I don't think Beowulf has either.


Chancellor Prestwick was assassinated by order of the PRH. The assassins were local thugs that happened to have ideological alignment with the Masadans, but the funding, tech, and intel came from StateSec.

Given how long Beowulf has been in the cross-hairs of the MAlign and how active their SDF and the Survey Corps were in combating genetic slavery and piracy, it's hard to believe the MAlign would never have targeted them. Or even any other shipping business that benefited from slave traffic. Just because we haven't been told does not mean it didn't happen.
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:I wonder how Grayson would respond to an assasination by a foreign policy. All of their assassinations or atempts have been domestic in nature. Is Grayson the only polity who has not been the victim of an assassination? I don't think Beowulf has either.


Chancellor Prestwick was assassinated by order of the PRH. The assassins were local thugs that happened to have ideological alignment with the Masadans, but the funding, tech, and intel came from StateSec.

Given how long Beowulf has been in the cross-hairs of the MAlign and how active their SDF and the Survey Corps were in combating genetic slavery and piracy, it's hard to believe the MAlign would never have targeted them. Or even any other shipping business that benefited from slave traffic. Just because we haven't been told does not mean it didn't happen.

I forgot about the assassination attempt in space. Though it shouldn't matter, wasn't that attempt aimed at Beth? And, it was domestic in nature, with a little help from some friends.

Friends? Why, yes. Remember, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"

Thanks for the reminder.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 am

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cthia wrote:I forgot about the assassination attempt in space. Though it shouldn't matter, wasn't that attempt aimed at Beth? And, it was domestic in nature, with a little help from some friends.

Friends? Why, yes. Remember, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"

Thanks for the reminder.


Attempt? They did manage to assassinate Cromarty and Prestwick. They failed to get at Benjamin & Beth, but that's hardly a failed assassination.

Anyway, we have a matter of semantic here. For me, that was a StateSec op which used local cut-outs. The attempted assassination of Queen Berry (Operation Rat Poison) was also through a Solarian businessman cut-out. The assassination of Honor was attempted with a Manticoran citizen and RMN officer (Tim Meares). I consider the actual brains behind the operation, not the patsies, cut-outs, or useful-idiots in the middle.
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:32 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:I forgot about the assassination attempt in space. Though it shouldn't matter, wasn't that attempt aimed at Beth? And, it was domestic in nature, with a little help from some friends.

Friends? Why, yes. Remember, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"

Thanks for the reminder.


Attempt? They did manage to assassinate Cromarty and Prestwick. They failed to get at Benjamin & Beth, but that's hardly a failed assassination.

Anyway, we have a matter of semantic here. For me, that was a StateSec op which used local cut-outs. The attempted assassination of Queen Berry (Operation Rat Poison) was also through a Solarian businessman cut-out. The assassination of Honor was attempted with a Manticoran citizen and RMN officer (Tim Meares). I consider the actual brains behind the operation, not the patsies, cut-outs, or useful-idiots in the middle.

Valid points, and I agree in every case, except with the Masadans being patsies. They never trusted the Havenites. They were simply religious fanatics with tunnel vision. I'd say the Masadans used the Peeps. They even managed to commandeer the very Thunder of God. How's that for religious fanatics, who were hardly patsies. Theirs was simply another "at all costs" proposition.

The Wiki tells of more blood spilt in that operation.

1. Lord Allen Summervale, Duke of Cromarty, Prime Minister of Manticore

2. Lord Henry Prestwick, Chancellor of Grayson

3. Lord Edward Henke, Earl of Gold Peak, Foreign Minister of Manticore

4. Lord Calvin Henke

5. Lawrence Hodges, Grayson Councilor for Interstellar Affairs

6. Francis Ney, Chief of the Duke of Cromarty's security detail

I didn't realize so many important people died in that operation. I just know they didn't get Beth or Benjy.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:42 am

cthia
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Could that even be considered a successful assassination for the Peeps? They wanted Beth and Benjy. Would they even have gone through the trouble to take out the others?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:40 am

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cthia wrote:Could that even be considered a successful assassination for the Peeps? They wanted Beth and Benjy. Would they even have gone through the trouble to take out the others?

And yet, the assassination actually achieved Saint Just's overall strategic goal -- preventing Manticore from completing the defeat of Haven. The exact mechanics that led to Manticore pausing probably weren't ones he could envision. And getting an actual formal ceasefire was probably more than he realistically hoped to achieve. But he got his goal; and so there's a fair argument that the assassination mission was a successful one (even if not all the targets were killed).

Though gaining his immediate strategic goal didn't to him any personal favors :D
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:02 am

cthia
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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:Could that even be considered a successful assassination for the Peeps? They wanted Beth and Benjy. Would they even have gone through the trouble to take out the others?

And yet, the assassination actually achieved Saint Just's overall strategic goal -- preventing Manticore from completing the defeat of Haven. The exact mechanics that led to Manticore pausing probably weren't ones he could envision. And getting an actual formal ceasefire was probably more than he realistically hoped to achieve. But he got his goal; and so there's a fair argument that the assassination mission was a successful one (even if not all the targets were killed).

Though gaining his immediate strategic goal didn't to him any personal favors :D

Is that true? I never realized the assassination was even remotely responsible for the ceasefire. I can't recall the specifics, but wasn't Beth livid at the sight of natural Peep stripes? Did I miss something?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by Theemile   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:35 am

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cthia wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:And yet, the assassination actually achieved Saint Just's overall strategic goal -- preventing Manticore from completing the defeat of Haven. The exact mechanics that led to Manticore pausing probably weren't ones he could envision. And getting an actual formal ceasefire was probably more than he realistically hoped to achieve. But he got his goal; and so there's a fair argument that the assassination mission was a successful one (even if not all the targets were killed).

Though gaining his immediate strategic goal didn't to him any personal favors :D

Is that true? I never realized the assassination was even remotely responsible for the ceasefire. I can't recall the specifics, but wasn't Beth livid at the sight of natural Peep stripes? Did I miss something?


Cromarty dies and Baron High Ridge and the Opposition takes over the Manty Government. St. Just expresses his condolences for the dastardly "Massadan" attack and offers a cease fire - which High Ridge accepts over QE IIIs desire to drive the war to a conclusion.

in short, nothing important.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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