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What happens to all that debris?

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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:22 am

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The usual pomp and ceremony attached to the "burial service" can still be accommodated. IIRC the wedge is some distance from the ship & the tiny flare (if it could even be seen) as whatever is used to contain the body hits the wedge, would mark the passing from the now to the hereafter.
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:47 am

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George J. Smith wrote:The usual pomp and ceremony attached to the "burial service" can still be accommodated. IIRC the wedge is some distance from the ship & the tiny flare (if it could even be seen) as whatever is used to contain the body hits the wedge, would mark the passing from the now to the hereafter.

That is true George, and, the wedge could just as soon substitute for the sun. I change my position on that if nobody else disagrees.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:31 am

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Getting off the burial thought....

To this point we really don't see any trash/garbage removeal from starships. Swapping out worn or damaged parts but no disposal of trash. No dumping it into a star or just "overboard" or hauling it off the ship. We also don't hear about emptying the "sanitary" tanks( either gray water or black water) though it is possible that at least the water is recovered/purified and reused.
We do see them taking on supplies but that is primarily ammuntion and parts. :)
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:04 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Getting off the burial thought....

To this point we really don't see any trash/garbage removeal from starships. Swapping out worn or damaged parts but no disposal of trash. No dumping it into a star or just "overboard" or hauling it off the ship. We also don't hear about emptying the "sanitary" tanks( either gray water or black water) though it is possible that at least the water is recovered/purified and reused.
We do see them taking on supplies but that is primarily ammuntion and parts. :)

Should there be a fine for dumping your waste material while in-orbit or in-system or while docked? Consider Parmley Station in it's hey-day. I wouldn't want to be hit with waste material while riding on the rollercoaster from hell.

In fact, Parmley Station is a prime example of a place which would be highly vulnerable to debris. I wonder if there has ever been any battles in that system.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:39 pm

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cthia wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Getting off the burial thought....

To this point we really don't see any trash/garbage removeal from starships. Swapping out worn or damaged parts but no disposal of trash. No dumping it into a star or just "overboard" or hauling it off the ship. We also don't hear about emptying the "sanitary" tanks( either gray water or black water) though it is possible that at least the water is recovered/purified and reused.
We do see them taking on supplies but that is primarily ammuntion and parts. :)

Should there be a fine for dumping your waste material while in-orbit or in-system or while docked? Consider Parmley Station in it's hey-day. I wouldn't want to be hit with waste material while riding on the rollercoaster from hell.

In fact, Parmley Station is a prime example of a place which would be highly vulnerable to debris. I wonder if there has ever been any battles in that system.
I suspect things like blackwater (at least what's left after recycling) gets pumped off at station when the ship is pumping in fresh water. A lot of waste could be compacted and also routinely offloaded when in port.

Why add space junk when you don't need to. It's not like the mass or volume of the waste is likely to cause any issues to ships with the size and engines routine in the Honorverse.
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by Theemile   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:28 pm

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Why not jut use plasma to recycle waste? gasses could be captured and liquified in a column like fuel is today, and human waste/food waste would be turned into sterilized carbon and other assorted atoms - which would probably be good for hydroponics (which honorverse ships have.) other items may be dumped into nanite bins for recycling in the nanite farms to make repair materials.
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by ZVar   » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:02 pm

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Theemile wrote:Why not jut use plasma to recycle waste? gasses could be captured and liquified in a column like fuel is today, and human waste/food waste would be turned into sterilized carbon and other assorted atoms - which would probably be good for hydroponics (which honorverse ships have.) other items may be dumped into nanite bins for recycling in the nanite farms to make repair materials.


That's what happens in my mind. We know that towers and other planet side places have incinerators to dispose of garbage from text. It's not a stretch to assume a couple are placed in starships to do the same job.
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:42 am

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ZVar wrote:
Theemile wrote:Why not jut use plasma to recycle waste? gasses could be captured and liquified in a column like fuel is today, and human waste/food waste would be turned into sterilized carbon and other assorted atoms - which would probably be good for hydroponics (which honorverse ships have.) other items may be dumped into nanite bins for recycling in the nanite farms to make repair materials.


That's what happens in my mind. We know that towers and other planet side places have incinerators to dispose of garbage from text. It's not a stretch to assume a couple are placed in starships to do the same job.

Do you know the age-old adage that says you've got to have money to make money? Well that's how the wastewater industry works today. You need water to filter wastewater. So, I didn't think a system that uses water to manage the waste would be logical, when water isn't an unlimited resource aboard ships.

I didn't anticipate using plasma. But is plasma so much an unlimited resource that it can be used instead? I thought it was busy recharging various systems for one thing. Can't you just hear Picard, "Divert power from the sewer system Number One!" Is any byproducts generated from recycling indispensable?

At any rate, I originally thought solid waste would be destroyed in some manner instead of recycled. it is just too easy to destroy it. George's previous idea of using the wedge for cremation would also serve to destroy solid waste.

Talk about shit hitting the fan.

Recycling waste infers a temporary storage system before the process is initiated. So there must be a huge containment system. Problem is, during battle, I'd hate for such a system to be damaged and released aboard the ship. So if there is a system that destroys it as quickly as it is generated, I'd prefer that. I suppose recycled excrement could be used as fertilizer, but in the HV, I'd imagine high quality industry standard fertilizer to be used instead. A sewer system that flushed directly into the wedge would be very efficient.


But then, what happens if you are flushing when you strike the wedge.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by cthia   » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:03 am

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I've always wondered about the degree of freedom civilians have in space. Private citizens can operate a lavish yacht or speedboat on the ocean. Honor has an expensive sloop on Sphinx, and a yacht that she can operate in space for fun. There's no telling what kind of personal vehicle either of the Hauptmans own. But how much freedom does anyone actually have in space? Would they be able to look for treasures just as they would on the ocean? In High School, there was a classmate who was addicted to metal detectors. Instead of enjoying the girls on the beach, he would search for lost metals endlessly. He found quite a bit of lost jewelry. Would a private rig be allowed to seek out overlooked debris? A private vehicle that is one huge metal detector? I'm surprised these vehicles don't follow the heat like modern ambulance chasers. LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What happens to all that debris?
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:33 am

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cthia wrote:I've always wondered about the degree of freedom civilians have in space. Private citizens can operate a lavish yacht or speedboat on the ocean. Honor has an expensive sloop on Sphinx, and a yacht that she can operate in space for fun. There's no telling what kind of personal vehicle either of the Hauptmans own. But how much freedom does anyone actually have in space? Would they be able to look for treasures just as they would on the ocean? In High School, there was a classmate who was addicted to metal detectors. Instead of enjoying the girls on the beach, he would search for lost metals endlessly. He found quite a bit of lost jewelry. Would a private rig be allowed to seek out overlooked debris? A private vehicle that is one huge metal detector? I'm surprised these vehicles don't follow the heat like modern ambulance chasers. LOL

We know that there are ownership claims on many things in space: in the Manticore system there are asteroid belts that are crown "lands", the Twins wormholes are in a system whose possession is a matter of legal dispute. I have no idea how someone asserts ownership; but am certain that if ownership is asserted, then no one else can grab a piece for themselves without permission.

As to your classmate with the metal detector, there is property law derived from English common law that states "A finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except the true owner, and is entitled to keep abandoned property". This can sometimes result in "theft by taking".
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