What happens to all that debris?

ZVar wrote:

cthia wrote: But, can ships enter hyperspace near the wormhole? And return at that same locus from hyperspace?

Define near.
The MJW has a hyper limt of "less than a million KM" as per OBS. Inside is like inside any star or planet's hyper limit, and outside is well, outside.

Brigade XO wrote:So, if when Haven holds Tervor's Star and is contemplating using it to do what Fillerta ended up trying to do much later, they would have had a fleet waiting just on the Trevor's Star end of the wormhole for a ship to come though with the message that the way was open.

Ok......so other than mines and junction forts, what else could you do to complicate a hostile transit. You could park obsticals in the exit lane. A bit more than large concrete blocks would be nessisary of course.
Perhaps you have a couple of x-Peep SDs that you brought back to the MBS but have determined that they arn't worth refitting though you could strip a lot things out of them and use them as block ships. Now you really can't put full time crews on them as you are going to use them in a manner inconsistant with the health and welfare of any crew. So you set them up as essentialy really large remote control drones and use their wedges as weapons. Have to provide station-keeping ability relative to the exit point of the wormhole from Trevor's Star and really really really close to the point at which ships would materialize. So you have the wedge up on several of these and layer them staggared out from the exit point such that anything comming out is going to at least hit the wedge if not wedge AND the SD. That should make quite the mess of anything transiting the wormhole right after it does that and the debris is going to continue "down" and out from the exit point at - to some extent- at the very low speed that the exiting ship brought with it through the wormhole.

cthia wrote:Thanks ZVar. Problem is, I never knew why, or what would happen if a ship attempted hyper inside the hyper limit in the HV. Some sci-fi works would have the ship explode. Some would destroy a planet if within it's gravity well. I'm sure trying to enter hyper within a wormhole's hyper limit wouldn't do anything to the wormhole or an enemy would do it intentionally. But does the ship explode or simply fail to hyper?

cthia wrote:We don't know what would happen to a gaggle of ships trying to transit which exceed the mass limitation. Whether they are destroyed, hit a brick wall or if they simply continue on beyond the wormhole in n-space. Which brings me to another question. Can the wormhole be entered from the opposite direction? I wouldn't think it can. But, can ships enter hyperspace near the wormhole? And return at that same locus from hyperspace?

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks ZVar. Problem is, I never knew why, or what would happen if a ship attempted hyper inside the hyper limit in the HV. Some sci-fi works would have the ship explode. Some would destroy a planet if within it's gravity well. I'm sure trying to enter hyper within a wormhole's hyper limit wouldn't do anything to the wormhole or an enemy would do it intentionally. But does the ship explode or simply fail to hyper?

Hmm, it's stuck in my head that trying to enter hyper while within an Honorverse hyper limit is basically harmless. You don't go anywhere, and the ship takes no damage. You would presumably drain the charge out of the hyper generator though - so depending on ship size it might be up to 35 minutes or so before you could try again.

OTOH I can't remember what I read that made that stick in my head, so take with a major grain of salt.

Theemile wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Hmm, it's stuck in my head that trying to enter hyper while within an Honorverse hyper limit is basically harmless. You don't go anywhere, and the ship takes no damage. You would presumably drain the charge out of the hyper generator though - so depending on ship size it might be up to 35 minutes or so before you could try again.

OTOH I can't remember what I read that made that stick in my head, so take with a major grain of salt.

that's my memory as well for an upward translation in a hyperlimit. downward, the outer 2/3rd? will have the ship bounce off with minor damage, the inner 1/3rds? loses the ship.

Echoes of Honor wrote:A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce.

Echoes of Honor wrote:A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce.

cthia wrote:

Echoes of Honor wrote:A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce.

So,

There is a chance of total ship destruction, as it is in other sci-fi.

Not trying to bust the author's balls, but that passage seems a bit inconsistent. Intuitively it seems that either something bad happens when trying to enter hyper at all points inside a gravity well or nothing happens. Albeit, in some sci-fi the planet is destroyed when operating deep inside a gravity well.

"Bouncing" off with "little damage" seems a bit vague. And what about casualties? Where do you bounce to? How far do you bounce from the locus of hyper initiation? Can it be used as a last ditch effort to avoid an stl weapon or an avalanche of missiles?

This "bouncing" also gets stuck in my craw. I know the ships are built to be somewhat robust. But bouncing? It reminds me of cringing everytime the Enterprise is hit with a torpedo, the ship absorbs the shock and the crew is tossed about like rag dolls. (I never understood why Kirk was the only one who was provided with a seat belt.)

But I digress. A ship absorbs energy even thru it's shields so why not thru it's sidewalls? I always imagine the crew in the HV getting tossed around as well. Where am I leading? Ramming a ship with a missile should be destructive. But we've beat that horse quite a bit, so I'll just go sit in a corner like "Baby."

cthia wrote:

Echoes of Honor wrote:A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce.

So,

There is a chance of total ship destruction, as it is in other sci-fi.

Not trying to bust the author's balls, but that passage seems a bit inconsistent. Intuitively it seems that either something bad happens when trying to enter hyper at all points inside a gravity well or nothing happens. Albeit, in some sci-fi the planet is destroyed when operating deep inside a gravity well.

"Bouncing" off with "little damage" seems a bit vague. And what about casualties? Where do you bounce to? How far do you bounce from the locus of hyper initiation? Can it be used as a last ditch effort to avoid an stl weapon or an avalanche of missiles?

This "bouncing" also gets stuck in my craw. I know the ships are built to be somewhat robust. But bouncing? It reminds me of cringing everytime the Enterprise is hit with a torpedo, the ship absorbs the shock and the crew is tossed about like rag dolls. (I never understood why Kirk was the only one who was provided with a seat belt.)

But I digress. A ship absorbs energy even thru it's shields so why not thru it's sidewalls? I always imagine the crew in the HV getting tossed around as well. Where am I leading? Ramming a ship with a missile should be destructive. But we've beat that horse quite a bit, so I'll just go sit in a corner like "Baby."

Theemile wrote:As for the Enterprise - it would shake if the writers decided on any given day that dropping an untoasted bagel in Engineering should knock the captain off his chair. Their "Tech the tech" attitude to writing the story made every episode very plot driven and completely inconsistent as a series. I wouldn't try to make any comparisons between the 2 series.