Did the MBS corner the market on trade?

Brigade XO wrote:

cthia wrote:We have discussed Manticore's high-handed trade policies affecting Haven and the SL. How did it affect the Andermani? Whose economy and expansionistic nature, like Haven, should have depended even more on trade.

Well, Manticore has a lot of merchant shipping trading in Silesia, but so does the SL, and we have to presume there are ships from Matapan, Asgard, Haven (well, that could be iffy during the war) Erwhon and places like the Judean League. Not sure if SEM or SL has more in terms of numbers and we don't know what the numbers are for the Andermani though they are the closest (for home system and other systems) in terms of actual hyperspace. Even Manticore doesn't get closer than using the juntion routes via Gregor or Basilisk as would the SL.

From some of the books, some the Andermani are annoyed with the arrogance of Manticorians but mostly that was talked about reguaring RMN. Everybody is annoyed with the SL from that standpoint.
The Andermani see Silesia as their natual and obvioius and nessisary direction of expansion of ownership of systems in the Empire and they are close trade markets. Close is good.

The Andermani don't seem to have any of the massive problems the Peeps had since (though we are not told) they don't have the kind of welfare state with the deliberate crippling of the education system that Haven had. Nor do they have the problem of stripping aquired systems of dam near everything and then adjusting production to Haven's needs and not letting any benift of even higher production accrue to the local population.

Of course, however agrivating and overbearing any Solly merchants may be, it's merchant captains and crews, not SLN which doesn't play any role at all- even "visting" out in Silesia on "good will" tours or showing the flag. That gets to be done by RMN which has the gaul- in the opinions of some expressed in the books, of actualy showing up in Silesia and doing commerce protection and pirate interdiction that the Sillies are mostly not capable of or have the asseets nessisary to do with all their other problems of corruption, politics, breakaway systems etc.
Clearly the Andermani have been doing something similar. They also have not been able to actualy do much about the corruption nor (not addressed) the breakaway systems/revolts but they do run commerce protection. And are probaby at least partialy annoyed that RMN was comming out with (mostly) professional and capable captains & also are covering the same areas that IAN is running commerce protection outside of the AE.
I don't think many RMN think of Silesia as someplace that ought to be "theirs". The Andermani are thinking that was- based on what is presented. At least they believe it should be theirs.....but just how much how fast? Does that the Emperor see that as one chunk he can digest at one time or would be be more like grab pieces off one or two at a time and have to keep the Sillies sufficently cowed for a century our two?

We do see where that washes out when AE and SEM do both get fed up with all the crap in Silesia and split it between them.

Brigade XO wrote:Well, Manticore has a lot of merchant shipping trading in Silesia, but so does the SL, and we have to presume there are ships from Matapan, Asgard, Haven (well, that could be iffy during the war) Erwhon and places like the Judean League. Not sure if SEM or SL has more in terms of numbers and we don't know what the numbers are for the Andermani though they are the closest (for home system and other systems) in terms of actual hyperspace. Even Manticore doesn't get closer than using the juntion routes via Gregor or Basilisk as would the SL.

From some of the books, some the Andermani are annoyed with the arrogance of Manticorians but mostly that was talked about reguaring RMN. Everybody is annoyed with the SL from that standpoint.
The Andermani see Silesia as their natual and obvioius and nessisary direction of expansion of ownership of systems in the Empire and they are close trade markets. Close is good.

The Andermani don't seem to have any of the massive problems the Peeps had since (though we are not told) they don't have the kind of welfare state with the deliberate crippling of the education system that Haven had. Nor do they have the problem of stripping aquired systems of dam near everything and then adjusting production to Haven's needs and not letting any benift of even higher production accrue to the local population.

Of course, however agrivating and overbearing any Solly merchants may be, it's merchant captains and crews, not SLN which doesn't play any role at all- even "visting" out in Silesia on "good will" tours or showing the flag. That gets to be done by RMN which has the gaul- in the opinions of some expressed in the books, of actualy showing up in Silesia and doing commerce protection and pirate interdiction that the Sillies are mostly not capable of or have the asseets nessisary to do with all their other problems of corruption, politics, breakaway systems etc.
Clearly the Andermani have been doing something similar. They also have not been able to actualy do much about the corruption nor (not addressed) the breakaway systems/revolts but they do run commerce protection. And are probaby at least partialy annoyed that RMN was comming out with (mostly) professional and capable captains & also are covering the same areas that IAN is running commerce protection outside of the AE.
I don't think many RMN think of Silesia as someplace that ought to be "theirs". The Andermani are thinking that was- based on what is presented. At least they believe it should be theirs.....but just how much how fast? Does that the Emperor see that as one chunk he can digest at one time or would be be more like grab pieces off one or two at a time and have to keep the Sillies sufficently cowed for a century our two?

We do see where that washes out when AE and SEM do both get fed up with all the crap in Silesia and split it between them.

Theemile wrote:
In the SITS Situation book on Silesia, it says that the Andermani have 5 Fleet zones. 4 are the various regions of the Empire. the 5th is Silesia, based at a moon in Breslau where they have a perpetual lease. Prior to Silesia, the Empire's growth has been mostly organic. they move into a system and make partnership deals , and slowly become the saviors of the system - more so in some cases. Most individual systems plateau without outside assistance with marginal economies, or reach a point where their political systems are in jeopardy, with a ruling class or family that over time becomes crooked. In most cases, the population has welcomed the interference of the Andermani and it's acquision. With a powerful navy and merchant marine, strong economy, and a strong government which espouses personal freedom - many people have been happy to have a govt that will get stuff done, and make life better for everyone.

My big question has been why they didn't try to get Marsh on the drive to Silesia?

cthia wrote:This post is prompting me to ask a long harbored question. What is the significance of Silesia as far as Manticore and the Andermani are concerned? Is there some strategic value militarily? I know it represents a brand new market, economically. But before the war with the SL and Lacoon's impact on Manticore's economy, Manticore didn't actually need those markets. Why not simply yield Silesia to the Andermani? The IAN's presence would do a fine job of solving the problems in the area. Two birds with one kind Manticoran stone.

"Mr. Hauptman," the admiral said after a moment, "I'm very sorry about the losses you and the other cartels are suffering. But your request, however reasonable it may seem, is simply impossible to grant at this time."
"With all due respect, Sir Thomas, the Navy had better make it possible." Hauptman's flat tone was just short of insulting, but he stopped himself, then drew a deep breath. "Excuse me," he said in the voice of one clearly unaccustomed to apologizing. "That was rude and confrontational. Nonetheless, there's also a kernel of truth in it. The war effort depends upon the strength of our economy. The shipping duties, transfer fees, and inventory taxes my colleagues and I pay are already three times what they were at the start of the war, and—" Caparelli opened his mouth, but Hauptman held up a hand. "Please. I'm not complaining about duties and taxes. We're at war with the second largest empire in known space, and someone has to pay the freight. My colleagues and I realize that. But you must realize that if losses continue climbing, we'll have no choice but to cut back or even entirely eliminate our shipping to Silesia. I leave it to you to estimate what that will mean for the Star Kingdom's revenues and war effort."
Caparelli's eyes narrowed, and Hauptman shook his head.
"That's not a threat; it's simply a fact of life. Insurance rates have already reached an all-time high, and they're still climbing; if they rise another twenty percent, we'll lose money on cargos which reach their destinations. And in addition to our financial losses, there's also the loss of life involved. Our people—my people, people who've worked for me for decades—are being killed, Sir Thomas."
Caparelli sat back with an unwilling sense of agreement, for Hauptman was right. The Confederacy's weak central government had always made it a risky place, but its worlds were huge markets for the Star Kingdom's industrial products, machinery, and civilian technology transfers, not to mention an important source of raw materials. And however much Caparelli might personally dislike Hauptman, the magnate had every right to demand the Navy's help. It was, after all, one of the Navy's primary missions to protect Manticoran commerce and citizens, and prior to the present war, the Royal Manticoran Navy had done just that in Silesia.

cthia wrote:This post is prompting me to ask a long harbored question. What is the significance of Silesia as far as Manticore and the Andermani are concerned? Is there some strategic value militarily? I know it represents a brand new market, economically. But before the war with the SL and Lacoon's impact on Manticore's economy, Manticore didn't actually need those markets. Why not simply yield Silesia to the Andermani? The IAN's presence would do a fine job of solving the problems in the area. Two birds with one kind Manticoran stone.

Theemile wrote:My big question has been why they didn't try to get Marsh on the drive to Silesia?

Theemile wrote:My big question has been why they didn't try to get Marsh on the drive to Silesia?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Isn't Marsh on the other side of Silesia, compared to the Empire? That is, on the side of Basilisk.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Theemile wrote:My big question has been why they didn't try to get Marsh on the drive to Silesia?

Isn't Marsh on the other side of Silesia, compared to the Empire? That is, on the side of Basilisk.

Jonathan_S wrote:Still unless I'm misreading the quote, or the map is all wrong, it's far closer to the Andies than to Basilisk.