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Alexrod

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Alexrod
Post by woodpckerr   » Wed May 06, 2020 9:59 am

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What books cover The Azelrod attempt at taking over the Manticore system?
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Re: Alexrod
Post by Theemile   » Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am

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woodpckerr wrote:What books cover The Azelrod attempt at taking over the Manticore system?


'A Call to Arms" and "A Call to Vengeance"

the Topic was briefly introduced in "A Call to Duty"
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Alexrod
Post by Theemile   » Wed May 06, 2020 12:12 pm

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woodpckerr wrote:What books cover The Azelrod attempt at taking over the Manticore system?



And woodpckerr, my appologies -

A Hearty Welcome to the forums. Your first virtual Old Tillman is on us - After that, you're on your own; my stock is running low (but if you do find a good supplier, share the wealth...)
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Axelrod
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed May 06, 2020 12:43 pm

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Theemile wrote:
woodpckerr wrote:What books cover The Azelrod attempt at taking over the Manticore system?


'A Call to Arms" and "A Call to Vengeance"

the Topic was briefly introduced in "A Call to Duty"


And will likely continue on the next one, because Axelrod will not give up.
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Re: Alexrod
Post by sonex   » Wed May 06, 2020 12:45 pm

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woodpckerr wrote:What books cover The Azelrod attempt at taking over the Manticore system?


Howdy, woodpckerr.

There are around 34-35 books in the Honorverse.
Most are available for Kindles.

I/m 83 years young, and on my 4th read. I only started a few years ago, but due to Alzheimer's, I can reread many times and still really enjoy these stories!

There are several "read order lists" on the forum.
Enjoy.

B.D.Harrington
Honor Harrington and Safehold nut.
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Re: Alexrod
Post by cthia   » Sat May 09, 2020 11:25 am

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There is also info to be found in House of Steel.


House of Steel wrote:The Axelrod Corporation had been one of the very first Solarian transstellars to recognize the true significance of warp bridges, after their discovery in 1447 PD...

[]

Axelrod's boldfaced attempt to use it's mercenary-manned fleet to seize the Manticore Wormhole Junction by naked force before the then-Star Kingdom even realized it might exist could have changed galactic history and—given the typical Solarian transstellar's modus operandi⁠—not for the better. Only courage, an officer named Carlton Locatelli, and a lot of luck prevented the attempt from succeeding, although very few Manticorans seem to think about that very much today.


Somewhere on this very forum is someone standing his ground after mentioning that if the SL had realized the value of junctions early on, would have seized the MWJ -- way back when the getting was good and the taking was better -- and might not be in the situation they're in today. Oh, wait, that was me. I am he who argued that point. Albeit, I am quite accustomed to being ahead of my time. And a bit modest too. :D

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Alexrod
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat May 09, 2020 12:21 pm

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cthia wrote:Axelrod's boldfaced attempt to use it's mercenary-manned fleet to seize the Manticore Wormhole Junction by naked force before the then-Star Kingdom even realized it might exist could have changed galactic history and—given the typical Solarian transstellar's modus operandi⁠—not for the better. Only courage, an officer named Carlton Locatelli, and a lot of luck prevented the attempt from succeeding, although very few Manticorans seem to think about that very much today.


Somewhere on this very forum is someone standing his ground after mentioning that if the SL had realized the value of junctions early on, would have seized the MWJ -- way back when the getting was good and the taking was better -- and might not be in the situation they're in today. Oh, wait, that was me. I am he who argued that point. Albeit, I am quite accustomed to being ahead of my time. And a bit modest too. :D[/quote]

:-)

I find it interesting that the passage talks about Adm. Carlton Locatelli without giving his rank and makes no mention of Travis. I suppose that history books would remember the ranking officer on the scene, which Locatelli was. But not mentioning his rank is weird.

Almost as if RFC and Timothy Zahn hadn't yet finalised on who the protagonist would be. House of Steel was published in May 2013 and the ACTA story in July 2013.
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Re: Alexrod
Post by cthia   » Sat May 09, 2020 6:50 pm

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Like I said, I posited the notion the SL should have seized the MWJ if they had known the true value of junctions. The conversation wasn't allowed to progress because certain people were in the annoying mood of arguing with me. For the sake of.

As usual, I'm usually right. And the same people eventually come around or textev drops a bomb. I don't have House of Steel, and came across this by way of the internet. Being ahead of my time often causes problems. Or is it that annoying ability of mine to think outside the box.

Now that we have come full circle, why didn't the SL follow up on taking the MWJ? Surely the young Star Kingdom couldn't have stood up to them at the time.

Only luck prevented it the first time. Murphy ain't ALWAYS around.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Axelrod
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun May 10, 2020 10:38 am

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cthia wrote:Now that we have come full circle, why didn't the SL follow up on taking the MWJ? Surely the young Star Kingdom couldn't have stood up to them at the time.


We're waiting for David Weber, Tom Pope and Timothy Zahn to tell us. Coming to your preferred book store, A Call to Insurrection or whatever name they settle on.

When we left off, in 1545, the Junction hadn't been discovered yet and from what we've been told, the characters haven't found anything in the captured Volsung databases that indicates why they were hired. But ONI and SIS are definitely going after that information.

I speculated in Initial Navy buildup in Travis' time that the official story is not exactly what happened, that ONI and SIS found out the information through sources that had to be protected, so instead they planted the story that the reason was in the Volsungs database. That story is believable, since few people would know of the entire set of details in the captured databases. Those who would have been briefed in the most sensitive details are also those who would know anyway where the actual information came from.

As for why the SLN didn't grab the junction afterwards, I think it was a combination of factors:

First, as you said, they didn't realise the actual value of junctions until much later. There were a few parties who already had, like Axelrod, but maybe the general public and the SL bureaucracy hadn't yet. Even if some parties had come around to the thinking, there's the question of the value of this particular wormhole. The wiki doesn't have the details on which termini were originally found, but I recall that they knew of 3 termini besides the junction, including Beowulf. So the SL would see a junction that connected a Core World (Beowulf) to the middle of nowhere and thence led to the ass end of nowhere. They wouldn't see the value of the Junction until further wormwholes would be found.

Second, Beowulf by this time would have protested. Beowulf didn't need the SL to grab the Junction, since they already co-owned their terminus. They were set, commercially speaking. And maybe the convinced the SL leadership that his was enough too, since traffic to the League would pass through them anyway. The SLN wouldn't want to be seen attacking a founding member of the League, who at this time already had a naval tradition and built their own BCs.

Third, it was that Navy build up. The Junction was discovered in 1585 and the half-a-million tonne BC-01 was commissioned in 1590. Moreover, BB-01 was commissioned by 1594 too, with fifteen more ships either in construction or ordered. Sure, they were Solarian designs, which means the SLN probably already had over a hundred of them and was working on the next class. I also speculated in that thread that the Ad Astra class DNs actually put Manticore ahead of everyone else for a time.

Putting it all together, the Junction was discovered in 1585, but the SL didn't realise the value until (say) 1610. At that point, Beowulf would be blocking any attempts from their end, commercially and militarily. By 1640 when the SL finally made up its mind to grab it despite Beowulf's disapproval, the Manticoran end would have been protected by 4 DNs and 16 BBs. Nothing the SLN couldn't take on, but sufficient to give them pause, need to plan, and decide go after easier targets. After a few disastrous grabs, the SL public opinion turned against grabbing, since all they had to do was wait anyway.
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Re: Axelrod
Post by munroburton   » Sun May 10, 2020 12:12 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Now that we have come full circle, why didn't the SL follow up on taking the MWJ? Surely the young Star Kingdom couldn't have stood up to them at the time.


We're waiting for David Weber, Tom Pope and Timothy Zahn to tell us. Coming to your preferred book store, A Call to Insurrection or whatever name they settle on.


We've already been told, really. The League's Constitution did not permit such actions. Nothing happened to provide justification for OFS to move in either - now, if Axelrod had succeeded, that might be different.

I think there are even one or two other known junctions within the League Core which the League doesn't directly control. If they never took these over, why would they bother with one 300 light years beyond their frontier?
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