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Raoul/Katherine Inheritance

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Re: Polygamy & Inheritance
Post by Somtaaw   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:51 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
munroburton wrote:Elizbeth's way ahead of you. She already created a Barony for Willie Alexander.

Although... I don't recall Willie having any children mentioned. Unless he has some, Raoul is also his current heir.
The wiki claims of William Alexander "He was married, and he and his wife had several children. (infodump)". But with the infodump site offline I wasn't able to confirm that RFC had in fact said that.

But I suspect having Raoul also first in line to inherit a 3rd title would be a distraction from the story RFC would want to tell. So I tend to suspect even if the wiki is wrong about what he's already said that if it ever become relevant we'll see that Willie in fact does have heirs with higher standing than his oldest nephew.


Infodump is up for me
From a post to Baen's Bar Honorverse dated October 21, 2002:
Willie Alexander is married (you should meet his wife in the next Honor novel) and has several children, for whom Emily is the doting aunt and who secure the Alexander succession, and she and Hamish never really "needed" children to confirm their love for one another.


So the mention of his wife & kids should be in either War of Honor, or At All Costs somewhere.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:12 pm

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Somtaaw wrote:Do we have any information on whether Honor's cousin Devon survived the Yawata Strike, and/or whether the Earldom of Harrington is still distinct from the Duchy of Harrington?
[snip]
If he didn't survive, because I think he was also childless, and seeing as how it was originally her title in the first place; it's quite possible it was reverted back to her, under the same law that made Devon inherit it from her (closest cousin, blood relation).


We indeed don't know if Devon survived, the title should pass to his heir, which may not be Honor. It may be some other relative.

In fact, it's almost certain it went to some other relative, since Honor can just refuse the title by abdicating it and I think she would. As was discussed above about the political implications, this also gets more votes aligned with Honor and the Queen.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by Somtaaw   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:57 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:Do we have any information on whether Honor's cousin Devon survived the Yawata Strike, and/or whether the Earldom of Harrington is still distinct from the Duchy of Harrington?
[snip]
If he didn't survive, because I think he was also childless, and seeing as how it was originally her title in the first place; it's quite possible it was reverted back to her, under the same law that made Devon inherit it from her (closest cousin, blood relation).


We indeed don't know if Devon survived, the title should pass to his heir, which may not be Honor. It may be some other relative.

In fact, it's almost certain it went to some other relative, since Honor can just refuse the title by abdicating it and I think she would. As was discussed above about the political implications, this also gets more votes aligned with Honor and the Queen.


Well thats why I think it reverted to Honor. I didn't remember Devon being mentioned to have wife nor child, but was said to be more concerned with books and library stuff as he was a historian.

Although apparently looking at the wiki to verify what he profession was, he did die in Yawata, but had a daughter who inherited the title. So guess I answered myself, the Earldom of Harrington didn't revert back to Honor and is currently a distinctly different title.

But it could still eventually revert (back) to Honor if Devon's daughter Sarah were to die with no heirs of her own. And with how badly the Sphinx Harrington clan has been winnowed, Honor's chances to (re)inheriting her old title have gone significantly up despite her 'abdicating' the Earldom upon her return from Cerberus.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by jchilds   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:59 pm

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Sarah is mentioned in Ch. 36 of Mission of Honor as the 2nd Countess Harrington.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:29 pm

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Somtaaw wrote:But it could still eventually revert (back) to Honor if Devon's daughter Sarah were to die with no heirs of her own. And with how badly the Sphinx Harrington clan has been winnowed, Honor's chances to (re)inheriting her old title have gone significantly up despite her 'abdicating' the Earldom upon her return from Cerberus.


Just because Devon was Honor's closest living relative at that time doesn't mean Honor is Devon's or Sarah's now. Sarah may have cousins on the other side of the family that are closer, like from a younger sibling of Devon.

And since Sarah is almost certainly a prolong recipient, there's a lot of time for new heirs to come along.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:36 pm

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jchilds wrote:Sarah is mentioned in Ch. 36 of Mission of Honor as the 2nd Countess Harrington.


Ok, that also answers whether the count is split male/female or joint. Honor was First Countess Harrington and Devon was 1st Earl Harrington.

That means Karina Alexander, Third Countess White Haven wasn't necessarily 8 generations an ancestor of Hamish Alexander, 11th Earl White Haven. There could be more in the intervening 350 years. On the other hand, for her to be the third holder of the title in 1540s must mean that there mustn't have been more than one Earl White Haven before her. The kingdom was only founded in 1485 PD.

In turn, we don't know what Katherine would be, if she indeed gets the White Haven Earldom.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:34 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:But it could still eventually revert (back) to Honor if Devon's daughter Sarah were to die with no heirs of her own. And with how badly the Sphinx Harrington clan has been winnowed, Honor's chances to (re)inheriting her old title have gone significantly up despite her 'abdicating' the Earldom upon her return from Cerberus.


Just because Devon was Honor's closest living relative at that time doesn't mean Honor is Devon's or Sarah's now. Sarah may have cousins on the other side of the family that are closer, like from a younger sibling of Devon.
For that matter if Devon had a younger sibling they'd have been one step further from Honor than him but would have been his heir until Sarah came along (and would still be her heir util she had children of her own) - since siblings come before cousins. So Somtaaw's assumption, that since Devon was Honor's heir then once Honor was known to be alive she'd automatically be his heir, isn't necessarily correct. And a younger sibling is only the simplest way the Devon could have one or more family members, other than his offspring, coming before Honor to succeed his title)


But, assuming at least one sibling, Sarah's title (assuming she doesn't have her own children yet) would go to them (if alive) before going to their children (her cousins). But yes, first cousins should come before a first cousin once removed like Honor is to Sarah.


That said, Honor is presumably still (barring some weird quirk of law blocking inheriting the same title back) somewhere in line of succession for Sarah's title. So if enough people die she presumably, in theory, could end up with both Harrington titles again.
Last edited by Jonathan_S on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:38 pm

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There seems to be a mess in Alison's family too. Who inherits the Benton-Chou pot after Alison, Alfred and Honor are gone? Between the twins.

Faith is the first born sibling and has already held the title of Steadholder, yet James will inherit the Grayson title because he's male. Relegating Faith to simply a temporary placeholder. Although the title had already been hers. IOW, she already has experience. And, I thought possession is nine-tenths of the law. Certainly prepossession is five-tenths, half of the law. LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:47 pm

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cthia wrote:There seems to be a mess in Alison's family too. Who inherits the Benton-Chou pot after Alison, Alfred and Honor are gone? Between the twins.

Doubt that money is entailed; after all the Benton-Chou aren't literal nobles and so wouldn't have the same laws around inheritance of a title and its entailed monies, property, etc.. So the answer is, presumably, whoever is specified in the relevant will (or wills).

IOW there's no possible way to know. Might get evenly split, might go preferentially one way or the other, might all just get donated to charity.
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Re: Raoul/Katherine Inheritance
Post by tlb   » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:41 am

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cthia wrote:Faith is the first born sibling and has already held the title of Steadholder, yet James will inherit the Grayson title because he's male. Relegating Faith to simply a temporary placeholder. Although the title had already been hers. IOW, she already has experience. And, I thought possession is nine-tenths of the law. Certainly prepossession is five-tenths, half of the law. LOL

What? First since Grayson changed their inheritance laws so that women could gain the title (except for the position of Protector), which is why Faith became the nominal Steadholder in the first place; why do you expect her younger brother to have priority? Second they are in line behind Raoul so need not expect to get that title.

If Honor were to be the closest relative to Devon and she renounced the Countess Harrington title on his death (since she was already Duchess Harrington), then that title would go to Faith.
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