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Honor/Hamish/Emily

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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:28 pm

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cthia wrote:Tlb also says the notion is of a minority. Dunno where he gets his stats on that. I'll assume he polled everyone.

That was a joke, since we are free to make them in this thread.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:07 pm

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Tlb also says the notion is of a minority. Dunno where he gets his stats on that. I'll assume he polled everyone.

That was a joke, since we are free to make them in this thread.

Another immature retort? Since we are free to make jokes in all threads???

BTW, a joke was made long ago in my social circles that the reason Pavel Young wasn't doing his job in the Basilisk system, is because he was occupied in his quarters. A notion that mirrors the similar joke about Kuzak. He was a long way from home for a very long time. And he thought he was above all laws and regulations.

Also, I have to point out the glaring obvious, but Kuzak showed that there is a questionable line that may or may not exist with her profession. Since the line is questionable, where is it drawn? Why is it too far fetched that she also extended her services to other men aboard her ship?

Likewise, since the Young's have no line, my friend's notion is in play as well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:24 pm

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cthia wrote:Tlb also says the notion is of a minority. Dunno where he gets his stats on that. I'll assume he polled everyone.

tlb wrote:That was a joke, since we are free to make them in this thread.

cthia wrote:Another immature retort? Since we are free to make jokes in all threads???

Just to be clear, here is the complete post that you did not understand was a joke (which I find funny):
tlb wrote:
Star Knight wrote:Yeah, so how does any of this factor in with her not rolling pods again? :P

Apparently she was an idiot or on crack. There is a minority opinion that she was off the command deck banging, but that view had been depreciated.

But "immature"? How can that be, when you have given me the following reassurance?
cthia wrote:Being disrespectful to the author, to the characters, and to forumites is quite different from being a prude, or from being immature.


Perhaps I have missed something; are you saying that you think Kusak was not on her command deck, during the critical period when pods should have rolled, while heading to destruction in the Battle of Manticore? I did not realize that, if true; so I did not realize that I could be taking a shot at one of your theories.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:10 am

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Wasn't it you who posted that the notion has been a part of the forum for quite some time? It isn't my notion, though I found it amusing, and funny, especially since it mirrored the same sentiment from one of my friends about Pavel Young's excuse for being lax in the Basilisk System.

To be clear, I'm only saying that I can understand why someone might think that that's what was happening offscreen. Perhaps even prior to Kuzak receiving the Case Zulu. Prior enough to have caused her mind to be groggy from the excessive banging of her brain against the bulkheads.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by tlb   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:25 am

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cthia wrote:Wasn't it you who posted that the notion has been a part of the forum for quite some time? It isn't my notion, though I found it amusing, and funny, especially since it mirrored the same sentiment from one of my friends about Pavel Young's excuse for being lax in the Basilisk System.

To be clear, I'm only saying that I can understand why someone might think that that's what was happening offscreen. Perhaps even prior to Kuzak receiving the Case Zulu. Prior enough to have caused her mind to be groggy from the excessive banging of her brain against the bulkheads.

If it was not your opinion that Kuzak was off the command deck during a critical period, they why did you take umbrage at my jesting that it was a minority view? You seemed quite sensitive to the notion that I might not have taken a poll of the forum.

I was merely stating something that I consider ridiculous and you responded as though you did not think it was a joke. I could understand if you did not think it was funny.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:55 am

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Wasn't it you who posted that the notion has been a part of the forum for quite some time? It isn't my notion, though I found it amusing, and funny, especially since it mirrored the same sentiment from one of my friends about Pavel Young's excuse for being lax in the Basilisk System.

To be clear, I'm only saying that I can understand why someone might think that that's what was happening offscreen. Perhaps even prior to Kuzak receiving the Case Zulu. Prior enough to have caused her mind to be groggy from the excessive banging of her brain against the bulkheads.

If it was not your opinion that Kuzak was off the command deck during a critical period, they why did you take umbrage at my jesting that it was a minority view? You seemed quite sensitive to the notion that I might not have taken a poll of the forum.

I was merely stating something that I consider ridiculous and you responded as though you did not think it was a joke. I could understand if you did not think it was funny.

I didn't take "umbrage" at your jesting. I'm merely gobsmacked by your certainty that it is of a minority opinion. Gobsmacked not simply because, but certainly inspired by the same sentiment being levied against Pavel Young by one of my friends, for his "inattentiveness" in the Basilisk System.

I certainly think it offers up a reasonable explanation as to why she was out of her mind for not rolling pods. And until, unless, the author himself or anyone else gives a better answer to a question we'd all like to know, that particular one becomes the theory on the table, lacking any other.

Considering Kuzak's profession "under the table" "in the closet" or "behind closed doors," I don't think the hypothesis is so far fetched, and sounds quite reasonable to me, considering human nature. It isn't like a lot of sexual encounters don't happen in the military, consensual or otherwise. So, the idea of Kuzak literally mixing a little business with pleasure just prior to receiving the Case Zulu, sounds like a perfectly reasonable possibility, considering the long absences from civilization and, mother nature. Therefore, not ridiculous at all to me.

I was annoyed because it seemed you used the post as an opportunity for another snipe at me. It seems I was in error? I can't understand why I'm so on edge. :mrgreen:

You have my apology.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by tlb   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:24 am

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Accepted, but I do not know how to prevent a recurrence; so we both need to be on guard.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:06 pm

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tlb wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote: It seems that I have stirred up a Shit Storm Rising with my joke about Admiral Kuzac. Given the context of this thread, I don't think that a somewhat juvenile jest about the moral character of another woman that Hammish had engaged in an extramarital affair with would be considered offensive. The difference between Kuzac and Honor is that Honor refrained from consumated the emotional bond that had unexpectedly developed with Hammish until Emily granted her blessing while Kuzak seems to have developed a far less profound affection while covertly comforting him with sex.

As for the entire debate about polygamy, I find it amazing that people find the idea offensive. Polygamy is a very, very common institution throughout history. While it is a feature of economically stratified, patriarchial societies (the rich guys get multiple wives while the poor guys get an occasional tryst with a prostitute), it is also an adaptation to differential mortality rates. Women have better immune systems then men so pandemics will kill off more men than woman. Polygamy maximizes the reproductive capacity of the society to recover.

By odd coincidence, one of my favorite movies was on TV, Anna and the King with Jody Foster. They actually got an Asian actor to play the king although he is from China rather than Siam. (I can't recall the modern name for the country.). A major plot element in the movie is the newest wife wanting to be with the man she loves rather than the king. It is gut wrenching when the British teacher realizes that the King was intending to pardon the lovers and release his wife from the marriage, but her public meddling compels their executions. The movie ends with the King and the British teacher realizing that it is only her inability to accept polygamy that prevents them from being together.

I view Manticore's moral standards as similar to may be modern America or 1980s Europe. (You Eurotrash are actually morphing into geriatric prudes as you take that plunge into demographic oblivion.). Premarital sex is not considered immoral. Promiscuity seems to be acceptable (Admiral Henke). I get the impression that homosexuality and gay marriage are accepted. People being people, I would expect that infidelity within marriage is not at all uncommon although socially unacceptable. I expect that even a few Grayson Steadholders were not the biological offspring of their putative fathers.

Given these realities, I am somewhat amazed that polygamous marriage would not be an accepted alternative on Manticore much less cause for political scandal. While Emily's situation is tragic, I am not at all surprised that she is willing to accept a sister wife into her marriage.



The country formerly known as Siam has been called the Kingdom of Thailand since about 1939. I do not remember if there is something disparaging about the former name, but the change was made in a period of anti-Chinese feeling.

The main problem with the joke is that it turns a "friends with benefits" situation into describing the woman as a slag, who would have sex with multiple men at the same time. It should have been posted in the humor thread. I do find your jokes juvenile, but usually do not complain about them; this one just happened to be a useful cudgel in a different argument.

I think you are wrong about Manticore's social standards in that as far as we can tell from the text, polygamy is very acceptable there; the church has long established procedures for such a marriage. The scandal in the book was the suggestion that Honor and Hamish were disrespecting Emily by cheating on her, a woman that had almost saintly status in that society; particularly when Hamish and Emily had written monogamy into their vows (another sign that polygamy was accepted). The scandal about polygamy itself is due to the personal feelings of some members of this forum.


Thank you for confirming my recollection on Siam becoming Thailand. They just had an interesting kerfuffle over the King taking on a second spouse. Given how eagerly some on this forum pounce on fumble finger, touchscreen typing errors, I didn't want to venture my unconfirmed guess.

I slammed Kuzac harder than necessary because there is another ongoing thread about the BoM. Kuzac just like the admiral commanding Home fleet didn't seem to understand that you can predeploy pods to launch massive salvo's. Then again, pods with their own tractor beams might have been in short supply and thus reserved for Eighth Fleet. Weber himself has posted that the logistical value of the ammo nearly equals the value of the ships.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by kzt   » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:56 pm

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No, the RMN uses a single nearly identical pod design for every 3stage Mk23 and the Mk16s. They all have the reactor and tractor.
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Re: Honor/Hamish/Emily
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:55 am

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THIS POST has been edited. The grammar police was threatening huge fines, and my spellchecker seems to be a woman scorned. Also, one of my friends contacted and informed me that she never looked at a certain aspect that way, but totally agree. She commended me on my sensitivity of the subject. "Especially coming from a man regarding the line that should not have been crossed."

She proclaimed, quite loudly, "You give hope to all women in the world regarding men!" LOL

She also added "If Hamish had sought out prior authorization from Emily, it might have led to a very tender moment, showing her just how much he truly cared and loved her, for him to seek out her blessing and understanding beforehand. The act also would have shown her how much faith he had in both her, and their love." *

I missed that very important point myself.

Does textev mention if Kuzak became a courtesan before the Navy, or during? I'm surprised the Navy doesn't have some sort of reg against that sort of extracurricular activity. It seems it would skirt awfully close to a certain reg. If her profession would be accepted by the Navy, could she offer the service to anyone, even in her chain of command? IINM, the regs frown upon intimate relationships in ones chain of command. But what Kuzak offers is a business transaction. Would, should she have been drummed out of the Navy?

*I was given permission to use that in that post, and I did. She came across it while perusing the ramblings thread. I promised to rekindle that thread this weekend. She's one of the woodchucks responsible for chucking wood on the fire in that thread.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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