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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by cthia » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:39 am | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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The Initiative 8th Fleet Seized
Hear ye. Here ye. 8th Fleet was created for attack. As an instrument of destruction, first. Defense, second. Certainly Home System Defense, should already be covered by, Home Fleet. If you want 8th Fleet to sit at home and get in Home Fleets business, then what does Home Fleet do? (What does the dishwasher do?) If you still indeed do, want 8th Fleet to do D'Orville's job, then send D'Orville's ass out on maneuvers to do Honor's job. Let him get his ass shot off over something called a Sanskrit. But, stop fudging and do one or the other. We're trying to win a war here. The RMN utilized it's interior lines. It is their biggest advantage. They relied on their pickets operating inside those same lines to keep the Admiralty apprised of any significant change in Peep movement, keeping an ever present watchful eye on the possibility of a Case Zulu. That's what they were supposed to do. The only way the Peep attack could be carried out was because of Bolthole. Which again is a failure of ONI. Not the Admiralty. Jiminy Crickets, you've got the MWJ and a galaxy wrecking device called 8th Fleet AND the MWJ can beam that device way into enemy territory to operate with impunity. No brainier. As I said, 8th Fleet's sorties didn't miss anything, they were clean sweeps. I imagine Theisman & Eloise were livid after the Salamander's raids. "What, Tom? They hit—" "Yes, Eloise." "And—" "Yes." "And—" "Yes." "How did they manage that Tom? I guaranteed certain people that certain things would be safe. How the hell did Harrington manage all of that? And what, with no loss, other than time, of her own? And very little of that. She's always sitting back at home by the time we find out. We've got to do something about her, Tom. I don't operate in a vacuum, you know! And nether do you!" To stop Honor, Theisman had to snatch Foraker out of her fucking garage, where she was busy tinkering. The Peep Admiralty had to summon a brute force of molycircs to do some serious AI thinking. That project alone kept Shannon busy for a spell. 8th Fleet was frightening, even when she was docked. Fear ran through the nightmares of the Peep population. During Harrington's raids, the population was afraid to travel, which resulted in heat rolling downhill to the Navy, and the Navy's head. Eloise. The successful outposts that were hit, lost even more revenue from the cancellation of future business transactions and reroutes. Honor wrecked infrastructure in neighboring star systems too. Up and down the "coast." When that happens, everyone has to go out of their way to find civilization. When your navy is raising so much hell that your enemy's entire focus is on doing something about your efforts. What a vast chunk of initiative you've seized. When your enemy's constituents are giving your enemy hell politically, making your enemy pull it's hair out, what another chunk of initiative you've seized. When your enemy's population is scared of the Boogeyman, and a political strip is being torn off your enemy's ass instead of your own, oh what an even bigger chunk of the initiative you've seized. But when you're keeping the enemy's best strategist out of the warroom doing his bidding, but instead is reacting to your own, oh what an unfair chunk of the initiative you've seized. When you're keeping your enemy's best tinkerer out of her garage, oh what a smart chunk of the initiative you've seized. When the Salamander was out on maneuvers, no one in Peep space got any sleep. Wondering what the long list of destruction was going to be. Infrastructure is support, in many areas. Banging up infrastructure in one system, could amount to killing a single "cog" made only in that system. The rich are living in fear. All travel plans are cancelled. Populations are lost to migration because they no longer feel safe. 8th Fleet is the lynchpin of the Navy and if war really is the continuation of politics by other means, then Eighth Fleet is simply a clear extension of those politics, by other means. Her CO is qualified, she's had many man hours as a politician. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by cthia » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:18 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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IF IF IF. You can't let IFs paralyze you. One of the biggest enemy's to a Navy is it's own leaders' indecisiveness. Shit or get off the pot. You can't do both Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by tlb » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:30 pm | |
tlb
Posts: 3966
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This is not the first time that a fleet at Trevor's Star has had as its main task providing backup for Home Fleet; as Hamish well knows, since he was the commander then. Note that after the one sortie, that is what the Admiralty appears to have ordered Honor's fleet to do. The "hard time" that I gave Hamish was for not arguing that the sortie would be better held until Apollo (particularly the system defense variant) was in wider deployment. I felt that he was offensive minded and so did not initially appreciate the position that Home Fleet faced. However the Admiralty must have prevailed by limiting Honor to the one sortie. Wanting to wait until Apollo was in wider deployment is not indecisiveness; it is discretion - the better part of valor. |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by TFLYTSNBN » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:33 pm | |
TFLYTSNBN
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Reminds me of the final weeks of WW2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_na ... rld_War_II When your civilians bear witness to enemy fleets ravaging the Homeland at will, it becomes Politically difficult to claim that you are winning the war. |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by tlb » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:38 pm | |
tlb
Posts: 3966
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What do you see as the equivalent for the Battle of Manticore, which had the potential to reverse the war's outcome? |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by George J. Smith » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:22 pm | |
George J. Smith
Posts: 873
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Well you can but it is a bit messy .
T&R GJS A man should live forever, or die in the attempt Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by tlb » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:07 pm | |
tlb
Posts: 3966
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I would like to think that the Admiralty deliberately set up a mouse trap for the Haven Navy: the Home Fleet was the cheese and Honor's Fleet was the killing arm after the initial raid disturbed the nest. The problems with that thought are the less than optimal responses of Home Fleet and Kuzak's Fleet to the invasion. If the Admiralty had set this up then there should have been much better planning for the use of pods and LAC's. So I am forced to believe that the Admiralty had concern about Home Fleet prior to the deployment of Apollo system defense pods, but was only acting out of caution without a sense that the threat was immanent.
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by cthia » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:08 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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The Pacific Theatre. Indecisiveness did not paralyze the US Navy. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by tlb » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:19 pm | |
tlb
Posts: 3966
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In the Pacific Theater, I assumed that he is writing about the situation in Japan after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I do not think he is writing about indecisiveness, except in the sense of pressure to surrender. |
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Re: OK KZT: What's wrong with AAC? | |
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by Galactic Sapper » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:05 pm | |
Galactic Sapper
Posts: 524
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I think the implied delay there was integrating the newly arrived Andermani ships with the existing 8th fleet structure. Certainly that was what Honor was working on when the Havenites showed up. I suppose she could have sent half the fleet out under Truman to burn down another Havenite system, but Harrington's primary job was at home at that particular moment. |
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