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Harrington Genome, and the Mesans

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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:27 pm

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Peregrinator wrote:I'm also assuming that anyone who is a full Mesan citizen belongs to a star line.


I don't think that's the case. Thirty percent of the population of Mesa were full citizens, so that should be about 2 billion people. You could say a vast majority (> 75%) had their genes tinkered, simply because that's what you do when you're rich in Mesa, but that does not translate to "star lines".
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by kzt   » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:01 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:I'm also assuming that anyone who is a full Mesan citizen belongs to a star line.


I don't think that's the case. Thirty percent of the population of Mesa were full citizens, so that should be about 2 billion people. You could say a vast majority (> 75%) had their genes tinkered, simply because that's what you do when you're rich in Mesa, but that does not translate to "star lines".

We know a very large proportion had no idea any of the MA insanity was going on.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:01 am

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Galactic Sapper wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:I thought the bomb meant to kill them didn't accomplish that.

And I maintain that there were simply too many descendants of alpha lines to kill all with bombs. Even the targeted people miss shuttle connections, have last minute change of plans, etc., so they may not have been where they were expected to. So, no, I maintain that there are lots of alpha lines to be found, not decoys.

I don't recall any text reference for their survival.



Chapter 55 of _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, as part of the aftermath of the Gamma nuke: "Among the people whose lives were spared by the timing were Zachariah McBryde’s mother Christina and his younger sister Arianne."
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:12 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:I don't think the entire star lines were relocated. Only the inner layers of the onion. Anyone who isn't in the inner layer would have resisted relocation in the first place. Eliminating those en-masse is difficult for the reasons I stated earlier. Allowing GAULs to remain behind to perform hit jobs is also a security risk, since they may be intercepted.

Not "relocated". "Located" as in that's where they were born and that's all they've ever known. The number of star lines on Mesa itself was very low on a planetary-population scale. Probably no more than one or two hundred thousand, compared to the couple billion on Darius.

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:Chapter 55 of _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, as part of the aftermath of the Gamma nuke: "Among the people whose lives were spared by the timing were Zachariah McBryde’s mother Christina and his younger sister Arianne."

That was one of the Houdini bombs meant to create mass casualties so that evacuees could be concealed in the list of dead. What I'm looking for is proof they survived the system-wide round of nukes Albrect triggered when 10th Fleet arrived.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:45 am

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Houdini was designed to cover the extraction of people whom the Alignment considered critical for ongoing research, operations and other needs including leadership and agent positions. Some "just" died, in aircar wrecks, "normal" medical problems or other accidents. That had limits, particularly they didn't leave a pattern of same causes of people who could ultimatly be identified as Alignment. They were having problems avoiding normal patterns even with the very early stages of Houdini.
Then there were all those terrorist bombings- those were designed to cover multiple deaths (up to, it would seem, hundreds) and in at least one to kill off as many of the close relatives/spouses etc of the Houdini members involved.
Note that the Alignment mearly considers the bombings as "tidying things up" which is much worse than Collateral Damage. They just kill hundreds and even thousands at a time to cover their tracks.
Then there is the Final Flourish.....really, like the surge at the end of a really long running fireworks show where everthing rises to a spectacular display....Right, 30+ NUCLEAR Bombs (some of them massive) all over the planet (and a lot of population centers) plus major orbital habitats. Of course there are things like a ski resort, an "uninhabited wildlife preserve on an island in the the middle of nowhere and blasts in space where Mesa Astro Control has no known object located- no facilities, stations ships, anything.

What a wonderful bunch of beings. Just what you keed to be a Glactic Genetic Super Race of self "improved" creatures who .......well, you get the idea.

How do you hide the Alignment? You kill millions(at least) and vaporize all sorts of stuff. Then you blame others.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm

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Galactic Sapper wrote:
Robert_A_Woodward wrote:Chapter 55 of _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, as part of the aftermath of the Gamma nuke: "Among the people whose lives were spared by the timing were Zachariah McBryde’s mother Christina and his younger sister Arianne."

That was one of the Houdini bombs meant to create mass casualties so that evacuees could be concealed in the list of dead. What I'm looking for is proof they survived the system-wide round of nukes Albrect triggered when 10th Fleet arrived.


Ah, got it. But it's unlikely that the Final Flourish targeted specific people, since you can't know for certain where they were when Albrecht triggered it. They'd have to be carrying the bomb with themselves (nanites, see the capturing agents thread) or there would need to be a missile homing in on them. The latter would be very visible and therefore counter-productive to their secondary goals.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:12 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:Ah, got it. But it's unlikely that the Final Flourish targeted specific people, since you can't know for certain where they were when Albrecht triggered it. They'd have to be carrying the bomb with themselves (nanites, see the capturing agents thread) or there would need to be a missile homing in on them. The latter would be very visible and therefore counter-productive to their secondary goals.

There seems to be two separate "final flourishes". The first one organized by MAlign security as the end of the disappearance stage of Houdini, which covered a lot of disappearances and terminally pissed off the Mesan security forces. That kicked off the seccie building sieges.

The second was triggered some weeks later by Albrecht when 10th fleet arrived. That one was intended to destroy any physical evidence of the onion as well as killing off as many of the "knows too much but lowest priority to save (or not worth saving)" group. That group had been for the most part collected in known locations specifically for the purpose of disposal - either by evacuation to Darius of the lower priority people if and when shipping was available, or simply to be held in place to be nuked eventually when the GA showed up. This second "final flourish" was very much intended to target a specific gatherings of people as well as the physical locations they were gathered at.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:57 am

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Re: an earlier post from "Galactic Sapper":

"I don't recall any text reference for their survival."

Galactic Sapper wrote:
Robert_A_Woodward wrote:Chapter 55 of _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, as part of the aftermath of the Gamma nuke: "Among the people whose lives were spared by the timing were Zachariah McBryde’s mother Christina and his younger sister Arianne."

That was one of the Houdini bombs meant to create mass casualties so that evacuees could be concealed in the list of dead. What I'm looking for is proof they survived the system-wide round of nukes Albrect triggered when 10th Fleet arrived.


There were two mass nukes on Mesa in October. The first (in early October) was the climax of a "terrorist" campaign that killed a bunch of people to cover up the evacuation of the inner onion. The nukes were also used to encourage the Mesa security forces to go on a rampage. It also was used to kill off those members of the inner onion that the Alignment couldn't (or decided against) evacuating. Albrecht's final flourish in late October killed off everybody the Alignment ran out of time to evacuate and destroyed every site used by the Alignment. Why would a residential tower hit in early October be hit again?
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:23 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:There were two mass nukes on Mesa in October. The first (in early October) was the climax of a "terrorist" campaign that killed a bunch of people to cover up the evacuation of the inner onion. The nukes were also used to encourage the Mesa security forces to go on a rampage. It also was used to kill off those members of the inner onion that the Alignment couldn't (or decided against) evacuating. Albrecht's final flourish in late October killed off everybody the Alignment ran out of time to evacuate and destroyed every site used by the Alignment. Why would a residential tower hit in early October be hit again?

Why wouldn't the same building get hit twice, if some of the intended targets survived the first one? That of course assumes they were all in that tower for the second round, which they may not have been. Parents maybe not home, sister(s?) long out on their own with their own lives - the first nuke getting all of them would have been absurdly lucky; the second even more so since the timing on it wasn't preplanned. That was why the MAlignment had gathered so many of the elimination list in set locations - covered as "meetings" or "vacations" or the like to disguise the fact that the victims were being held specifically for the purpose of being evacuated or eliminated.

Face it, the McBrides are pretty high on the "knows too much" list. While they may not have known precisely what Jack and Zach did for the Alignment, they knew they both worked for the Alignment and approximately what they did in terms of professions. The overt Alignment, with its goal of individual, voluntary genetic improvement, would not have had much need for security forces (Jack) or physicists (Zach). The McBrides could not reasonably be expected to think their sons worked for the Benignment given their skill sets.

It's entirely possible the McBrides survived both rounds of nukes. We have no reason to believe they did, though, and if they did it's certain the Malignment has some other way of getting rid of them planned.
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Re: Harrington Genome, and the Mesans
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:08 pm

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Galactic Sapper wrote:It's entirely possible the McBrides survived both rounds of nukes. We have no reason to believe they did, though, and if they did it's certain the Malignment has some other way of getting rid of them planned.


We also have no reason believe they didn't. As you said, the final set of bombs were set at a time the Alignment hadn't planned for (Albrecht set them off when Second and Tenth Fleet entered orbit). Anyone with half a brain -- and Alignment members that would need to be disposed of certainly qualified for a full one -- would know that there would be no evacuation at least an hour before that.

As for other means, they may have them, but as I said, leaving hit men behind is a trail that leads back to the Alignment.
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