Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], kzt and 9 guests

MDMs should last a little longer than they do

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Daryl   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:42 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2895
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Relativity can give you a headache. I suspect that is why the Honorverse physics seem to have a simplified version. Remarkable how it has endured the last 20 years so well.
A minor bone to chew on. Take a hollow core SD(P), travelling at 0.6 C. One crew member at the tail shines a laser torch up the core from tail to front. What speed is the light traveling at?
I believe that I know the answer, but would appreciate responses.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Joat42   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:33 am

Joat42
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1510
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:01 am
Location: Sweden

Daryl wrote:Relativity can give you a headache. I suspect that is why the Honorverse physics seem to have a simplified version. Remarkable how it has endured the last 20 years so well.
A minor bone to chew on. Take a hollow core SD(P), travelling at 0.6 C. One crew member at the tail shines a laser torch up the core from tail to front. What speed is the light traveling at?
I believe that I know the answer, but would appreciate responses.

The speed of light is constant.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:39 am

Galactic Sapper
Commander

Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Daryl wrote:Relativity can give you a headache. I suspect that is why the Honorverse physics seem to have a simplified version. Remarkable how it has endured the last 20 years so well.
A minor bone to chew on. Take a hollow core SD(P), travelling at 0.6 C. One crew member at the tail shines a laser torch up the core from tail to front. What speed is the light traveling at?
I believe that I know the answer, but would appreciate responses.

Speed of light wouldn't change but the light would be noticeably redshifted.

That would have to take some getting used to. On a ship under way the color of the bulkheads would change depending on which direction you were facing!

Guess that would help teach the recruits how to tell port and starboard apart pretty quickly.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am

ThinksMarkedly
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

Galactic Sapper wrote:
Daryl wrote:Relativity can give you a headache. I suspect that is why the Honorverse physics seem to have a simplified version. Remarkable how it has endured the last 20 years so well.
A minor bone to chew on. Take a hollow core SD(P), travelling at 0.6 C. One crew member at the tail shines a laser torch up the core from tail to front. What speed is the light traveling at?
I believe that I know the answer, but would appreciate responses.

Speed of light wouldn't change but the light would be noticeably redshifted.

That would have to take some getting used to. On a ship under way the color of the bulkheads would change depending on which direction you were facing!

Guess that would help teach the recruits how to tell port and starboard apart pretty quickly.


No, it wouldn't, any more than the music in your car sounds different at a red light or at 75 mph / 120 km/h. The emitter is moving with you, so the wave you detect isn't compressed by the Doppler Effect.

If that crew member pointed the torch outside the ship towards a planet, then someone in the planet would see it redshifted (assuming the ship is moving away from the planet, not just turned over to decelerate towards it).
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by phillies   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:20 am

phillies
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1941
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

Daryl wrote:Relativity can give you a headache. I suspect that is why the Honorverse physics seem to have a simplified version. Remarkable how it has endured the last 20 years so well.
A minor bone to chew on. Take a hollow core SD(P), travelling at 0.6 C. One crew member at the tail shines a laser torch up the core from tail to front. What speed is the light traveling at?
I believe that I know the answer, but would appreciate responses.


The speed of light as measured bya local observer is constant.

As measured by a distant stationary observer, general relativity issues arise and life is mroe interesting.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Joat42   » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:01 pm

Joat42
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1510
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:01 am
Location: Sweden

phillies wrote:The speed of light as measured by a local observer is constant.

As measured by a distant stationary observer, general relativity issues arise and life is more interesting.

It's always constant no matter the frame of reference of the observer, what changes is the perceived energy-state of the light.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Daryl   » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:26 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2895
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Relativity. It is relative to the observer. On the SD(P) observers would see it as normal light. Assuming the light could be seen from outside the ship, an observer at rest, relative to the ship being at 0.6C in front of it, would see it having a much higher (more energetic) frequency, while one behind would see it red shifted to less energetic. All would see it as at light speed.
Thus bow chaser lasers and grasers would be more destructive if the ship was traveling at relativistic speed, relative to the target.
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by phillies   » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:22 am

phillies
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1941
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

Joat42 wrote:
phillies wrote:The speed of light as measured by a local observer is constant.

As measured by a distant stationary observer, general relativity issues arise and life is more interesting.

It's always constant no matter the frame of reference of the observer, what changes is the perceived energy-state of the light.


Well, no. That's the special relativity statement. The general relativity statement, which was apparent even in the early radar studies of the orbits of Venus and Mercury a half century ago, is that the speed of light as measured by a distant observer depoends on the local gravitational potential at the locations of the observer and the light. This is the "Shapiro Delay".
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:56 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:31 am
Location: KY

? Gravity getting involved?
How about we go back to the fiction and presume that the same targeting software and updates to the missile in flight takes local gravity and "known" variation into account and adjust's the missile's instructions to allow for it, just like it adjusts for the projected path in the targeting solution for an enemy ship under power and maneuvering?
Top
Re: MDMs should last a little longer than they do
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:47 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

Brigade XO wrote:? Gravity getting involved?
How about we go back to the fiction and presume that the same targeting software and updates to the missile in flight takes local gravity and "known" variation into account and adjust's the missile's instructions to allow for it, just like it adjusts for the projected path in the targeting solution for an enemy ship under power and maneuvering?


Of course. If they can calculate sensor images across the highly distorted gravity of the double wedge bands, calculating the gravity well of a measly planet or moon should be a piece of celery.
Top

Return to Honorverse