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While we're discussing Matapan...

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While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by Theemile   » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:38 pm

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I've always wondered if Matapan was originally supposed supposed to be lynx in the storyline, but was changed as the story progressed.

Both have many similarities - backwater regions from recently found wormhole junctions, with a handful of marginal economies.

Unfortunately, I had never heard of Matapan before reading the books. then it occured to me today to look it up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Matapan

for those of you like me, the battle was in WWII where the British got crucial intel of Italian intentions to destroy British merchant shipping in the eastern Med and hamper support for the N. Africa Campaigns against Germany using a heavy force of 1 BB, 6 CA, and ~20 CLs and DDs. Bad intel on the Italian side said the British only had 1 battle wagon and a damaged CV, instead of 3 BB and 1CV at 100%, with accompanying Screen.

Long and short, the British intercepted, and the Italians lost an entire Heavy Cruiser squadron (3), and realized they were totally outclassed and never sailed in force again.

Was Monica originally supposed to be the Battle of Cape Matapan?
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by tlb   » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:18 pm

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Isn't Matapan in the wrong place for that? According to the Pearls, it is "beyond the Andermani Empire, which gives it even more spatial separation from the Republic than the Empire has". The only other link to the area is from Asgard, which means it would not place Manticore in conflict with the Solarian League's territorial ambitions. It is more of a place someone would go to flee the reach of the OFS.

It is interesting that there was a battle there in WW2, but that just might be a name that RFC needed.
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by Theemile   » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:22 am

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tlb wrote:Isn't Matapan in the wrong place for that? According to the Pearls, it is "beyond the Andermani Empire, which gives it even more spatial separation from the Republic than the Empire has". The only other link to the area is from Asgard, which means it would not place Manticore in conflict with the Solarian League's territorial ambitions. It is more of a place someone would go to flee the reach of the OFS.

It is interesting that there was a battle there in WW2, but that just might be a name that RFC needed.


Asgerd might have been the original Cat's paw - who knows.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by tlb   » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:31 am

tlb
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tlb wrote:Isn't Matapan in the wrong place for that? According to the Pearls, it is "beyond the Andermani Empire, which gives it even more spatial separation from the Republic than the Empire has". The only other link to the area is from Asgard, which means it would not place Manticore in conflict with the Solarian League's territorial ambitions. It is more of a place someone would go to flee the reach of the OFS.

It is interesting that there was a battle there in WW2, but that just might be a name that RFC needed.

Theemile wrote:Asgerd might have been the original Cat's paw - who knows.

The Pearls say this about Asgard:
The Asgerd Association has an… interesting relationship with the Andermani Empire, which generally inspires it to not do anything likely to irritate the Andies, who are both the greatest military threat to it and its most important trading partner. During the period of the First Havenite War, when the Empire was being any "friendly neutral" as far as the Star Kingdom was concerned, Asgerd had all sorts of reasons to avoid any potential brangles with Manticore. Moreover, Asgerd has been much more interested in and involved with Midgard, which is sort of its own version of Matapan. All of this means that there had been a sort of informal division of "spheres of influence" under which Asgerd stayed out of Matapan, leaving the field there clear for the Star Kingdom's "Trucial States" relationship.

So Asgard leads to the Andermani Empite, not to the Solarian League.
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by Theemile   » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:52 am

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tlb wrote:
tlb wrote:Isn't Matapan in the wrong place for that? According to the Pearls, it is "beyond the Andermani Empire, which gives it even more spatial separation from the Republic than the Empire has". The only other link to the area is from Asgard, which means it would not place Manticore in conflict with the Solarian League's territorial ambitions. It is more of a place someone would go to flee the reach of the OFS.

It is interesting that there was a battle there in WW2, but that just might be a name that RFC needed.

Theemile wrote:Asgerd might have been the original Cat's paw - who knows.

The Pearls say this about Asgard:
The Asgerd Association has an… interesting relationship with the Andermani Empire, which generally inspires it to not do anything likely to irritate the Andies, who are both the greatest military threat to it and its most important trading partner. During the period of the First Havenite War, when the Empire was being any "friendly neutral" as far as the Star Kingdom was concerned, Asgerd had all sorts of reasons to avoid any potential brangles with Manticore. Moreover, Asgerd has been much more interested in and involved with Midgard, which is sort of its own version of Matapan. All of this means that there had been a sort of informal division of "spheres of influence" under which Asgerd stayed out of Matapan, leaving the field there clear for the Star Kingdom's "Trucial States" relationship.

So Asgard leads to the Andermani Empite, not to the Solarian League.


I meant Mesa's Cat's Paw. If the story was originally different, who says that the SLN would have had the same involvement. besides, Asgerd is near to the SLN, and has a wormhole to the Matapan cluster.

http://gotshifted.com/honorverseglossar ... e_v1.0.png
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by tlb   » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:58 am

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Theemile wrote:I meant Mesa's Cat's Paw. If the story was originally different, who says that the SLN would have had the same involvement. besides, Asgerd is near to the SLN, and has a wormhole to the Matapan cluster.

http://gotshifted.com/honorverseglossar ... e_v1.0.png

But what the Mesan Alignment was trying to do was to foment a war to destroy the Solarian League and any successor state, other than the Renaissance Factor; not a war between Manticore and Asgard or the Andermani.

PS. Very nice picture, but I missed seeing Mesa and the Wormhole that comes close to it. Do I need to look more carefully?
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Re: While we're discussing Matapan...
Post by Theemile   » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:05 am

Theemile
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Posts: 3533
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tlb wrote:
Theemile wrote:I meant Mesa's Cat's Paw. If the story was originally different, who says that the SLN would have had the same involvement. besides, Asgerd is near to the SLN, and has a wormhole to the Matapan cluster.

http://gotshifted.com/honorverseglossar ... e_v1.0.png

But what the Mesan Alignment was trying to do was to foment a war to destroy the Solarian League and any successor state, other than the Renaissance Factor; not a war between Manticore and Asgard or the Andermani.

PS. Very nice picture, but I missed seeing Mesa and the Wormhole that comes close to it. Do I need to look more carefully?

Lot of details are missing on this map, unfortunately. Iowa/Zucker, Visigoth/Mesa, Aguila/Stein, Felix/Darius/Twins, etc etc wormholes are all missing from this map - probably because the creator doesn't know the positions of the wormholes and didn't want to guess.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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