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Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry

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Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:35 pm

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Easy.

Offer to sell export models of Manticoran or Grayson warships to SL members who suddenly realize that they need an SDF. The potential market is 1,000+ core systems who need 50 to 100 SD(P)s, LACs, System defense pods. That is 50,000 to 100,000 warships.

The export grade warships will be capable but one generation behind latest alliance warships.

Orders must be at least partially prepaid, either with cash or by delivery of advanced fabrication modules to rebuild production capacity.

The more heavily industrialized systems that the GA trusts might also buy production licenses to build their own warships.

An anology would be the F-16 and F-35 fighter programs.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by kzt   » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:57 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:Easy.

Offer to sell export models of Manticoran or Grayson warships to SL members who suddenly realize that they need an SDF. The potential market is 1,000+ core systems who need 50 to 100 SD(P)s, LACs, System defense pods. That is 50,000 to 100,000 warships.

The export grade warships will be capable but one generation behind latest alliance warships.

Orders must be at least partially prepaid, either with cash or by delivery of advanced fabrication modules to rebuild production capacity.

The more heavily industrialized systems that the GA trusts might also buy production licenses to build their own warships.

An anology would be the F-16 and F-35 fighter programs.

Umm, they can’t build anything now. Kind of chicken and egg thing. If I’m supposed to pay trillions now for a warship in a decade it’s not going to be an export model. It’s going to be the latest and greatest with everyone having been run through the RMN training pipeline. Along with a full logistics and documentation package.

And I’m also going to get the RMN to provide security until my ships are ready.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:35 pm

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kzt wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Easy.

Offer to sell export models of Manticoran or Grayson warships to SL members who suddenly realize that they need an SDF. The potential market is 1,000+ core systems who need 50 to 100 SD(P)s, LACs, System defense pods. That is 50,000 to 100,000 warships.

The export grade warships will be capable but one generation behind latest alliance warships.

Orders must be at least partially prepaid, either with cash or by delivery of advanced fabrication modules to rebuild production capacity.

You are missing the point.

If they get 100 customers to prepay a deposit by delivering 1/100th of a shipyard within a few months then they have a shipyard again to build with.

The more heavily industrialized systems that the GA trusts might also buy production licenses to build their own warships.

An anology would be the F-16 and F-35 fighter programs.

Umm, they can’t build anything now. Kind of chicken and egg thing. If I’m supposed to pay trillions now for a warship in a decade it’s not going to be an export model. It’s going to be the latest and greatest with everyone having been run through the RMN training pipeline. Along with a full logistics and documentation package.

And I’m also going to get the RMN to provide security until my ships are ready.


Get 100 systems to prepay with fabrication modules that are equal to 1% of a shipyard and Manticore and Grayson will have 100% of a shipyard.

I would remind everyone that building export grade weapons systems is a long established practice. An example is the F-22 that is reserved for the US and the F-35 which is shared with allies.

The British used to sell a lot of warahips including battleships to South American navies. The export battleships were very impressive often with more guns than domestic models but were lacking in protection or speed.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by Sigs   » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:29 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:Easy.

Offer to sell export models of Manticoran or Grayson warships to SL members who suddenly realize that they need an SDF. The potential market is 1,000+ core systems who need 50 to 100 SD(P)s, LACs, System defense pods. That is 50,000 to 100,000 warships.

The export grade warships will be capable but one generation behind latest alliance warships.

Orders must be at least partially prepaid, either with cash or by delivery of advanced fabrication modules to rebuild production capacity.

The more heavily industrialized systems that the GA trusts might also buy production licenses to build their own warships.

An anology would be the F-16 and F-35 fighter programs.



Problem is that 1 step behind even the RHN's SD(P)'s is still 50 steps ahead of the SLN's ships.

Even if the GA makes an export version and it takes them to design and build the first 1,000 SD(P)'s in six years(Because of Bolthole and the rest of the Republics yards) that means everyone else from the MA to the SLN to every little wouldbe dictator will have firepower way too close to the GA's Fleet within 6 years. Besides that they dont know how capable the MA's fleet really is, all they have done so far is surprise attacks the GA without exposing their ships actual capabilities against the Grand Fleet. Pound for Pound the MA's SD's might be weaker than the GA's and fewer of them or they may be significantly stronger than the GA and more numerous.

I would say at least initially only arm the systems that fall within the GA's sphere with offensive weapons while every other core system that wants it can get light combatants, export RHN LAC's and fixed defences. You can pump them out faster and you don't have to give potential enemies too much information.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by tlb   » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:13 pm

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Sigs wrote:I would say at least initially only arm the systems that fall within the GA's sphere with offensive weapons while every other core system that wants it can get light combatants, export RHN LAC's and fixed defences. You can pump them out faster and you don't have to give potential enemies too much information.

I am not sure that you want to put the improved compensator, the LAC fission plant or the bow and stern bucklers into the export market. Maybe not even the increased automation that allows the reduced crew size. You definitely do not want anything with FTL communication to go out. I think it would be better if the GA did not get into the weapons export business and just allowed the wormhole transfer fees to finance reconstruction.

PS. If you use Bolthole (or shipyards in the Republic), then perhaps more than half of the proceeds go to Haven. Also you need actual money coming in to pay the workers.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:18 pm

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tlb wrote:
Sigs wrote:I would say at least initially only arm the systems that fall within the GA's sphere with offensive weapons while every other core system that wants it can get light combatants, export RHN LAC's and fixed defences. You can pump them out faster and you don't have to give potential enemies too much information.

I am not sure that you want to put the improved compensator, the LAC fission plant or the bow and stern bucklers into the export market. Maybe not even the increased automation that allows the reduced crew size. You definitely do not want anything with FTL communication to go out. I think it would be better if the GA did not get into the weapons export business and just allowed the wormhole transfer fees to finance reconstruction.

PS. If you use Bolthole (or shipyards in the Republic), then perhaps more than half of the proceeds go to Haven. Also you need actual money coming in to pay the workers.

Well he did say Republic of Haven Navy (RHN) LACs. The original Cimeterre didn't have fission plants. And I don't think any variant has Beta-squared nodes, but they all have somewhat improved compensators, and at least the original recon variants had FTL comms; though relatively low bandwidth. And if the recon LACs had FTL I'd assume they all did - it's not that space intensive.

But the later Cimeterre-Alpha and -Beta units were believed to have fission plants (I'd forgotten that), as well as bow walls.

So even the original Cimeterre-class LACs have some tech you probably don't want to be exporting beyond close allies. So you'd probably want to custom build an export grade LAC - not just hand out even original Cimeterres to just anybody.



However I don't think you can avoid giving out better LAC acceleration - at the very a minimum you've got to get their acceleration up to where it "should" be for their tiny displacement -- not hobbled to 409 gees like classic LACs were (by their puny drive nodes). Because nobody is going to want to rely on LACs for system defense when they're over 100 gees lower acceleration than a legacy destroyer when it "should be" around 20 gees quicker. (Or the bigger tougher LACs Honor took to Silesia in HAE were about 50 gees faster than a legacy destroyer thanks to 1st gen improved compensators. You might even have to go that far to make LACs look attractive. Actually giving away fission tech isn't that big a deal, IMO, because it doesn't lead anywhere except better LACs. It doesn't scale to full warships. But whether or not you change the power plant to make really effective LACs you probably have to release improved superconducting capacitors. And those do scale to also improving bigger warships.
So I think to make LACs viable and attractive you'll have to give out some of your goodies. (But not FTL)
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by Maldorian   » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:38 am

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Manticor: With the reopining of the Wormhole junction there is enough money for the rebuild.

Grayson: Investors like Hauptmann from Manticore.


The problem with rebuilding the manticorian space stations is, that they are big and the old ones were old. The old manticorian stations growth over the time, that means different level of tecnology of the old stations. You don´t have accurate blueprints of the old stations and you don´t want to rebuild them how the were. You have to replace overaged parts of the station.

Grayson had smaller space stations and more important, they are up to date. They are smaller, means you can finish them faster and with the ready blueprints you can start building now.

Manticore must first create blueprints for their new space stations and because of the size of the station it needs longer till you can start production.

So, there should be some manticorians who spend some money into Grayson, because they get products faster in return.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by Sigs   » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:49 pm

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tlb wrote:I am not sure that you want to put the improved compensator, the LAC fission plant or the bow and stern bucklers into the export market. Maybe not even the increased automation that allows the reduced crew size. You definitely do not want anything with FTL communication to go out. I think it would be better if the GA did not get into the weapons export business and just allowed the wormhole transfer fees to finance reconstruction.

PS. If you use Bolthole (or shipyards in the Republic), then perhaps more than half of the proceeds go to Haven. Also you need actual money coming in to pay the workers.


I definitely wouldn't want to arm potential adversaries with capabilities slightly behind those in my ships and its not just the SLN Id be worried about but the MA plus any wannabe dictators.

As for the money going to Haven? After all the expenses associated with building the equipment is covered the rest would be split with the GA in forms of low interest loans and assistance. This way you tie Haven firmly to the GA because of those investments to Manticore, Grayson and Beowulf. If you were to invest 25% of the proceeds back into the Republic, 50% split amongst Manticore, Beowulf and Grayson in forms of gifts and low interest loans and 25% in low interest loans to those neutral systems that the SLN went after in order to rebuild and bring them closer to the GA, plus as many verge/protectorates as you can loan it out to focusing on nations like the Kingdom of Meyers because of their stability and their ability to spread it to others in the region.

All of this would be good for Haven because they will bring the rest of the GA closer to them, bringing those neutrals that the SLN attacked closer to the fold because after all they have the manpower for the industrial capabilities pre-SLN visit but they don't have the industry itself so for them its simply a matter of rebuilding rather than rebuilding AND retraining an entire workforce.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by pnakasone   » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:13 pm

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With prolong SKM can offer bonds that mature in 50 years. Even ones that mature in 100 years would be considered a viable investment.
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Re: Financing the rebuilding of the SKM and Grayson industry
Post by Sigs   » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:29 pm

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pnakasone wrote:With prolong SKM can offer bonds that mature in 50 years. Even ones that mature in 100 years would be considered a viable investment.


Think about also direct investment in companies within the SKM, if the Republic steps in right as those companies are about to collapse you can only imagine the gratitude of the people of the SEM but also the vested interest that Haven will have in the SEM and vice versa.
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