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Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse

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Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by CaptainPerseus   » Thu May 30, 2019 10:39 pm

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I've read the Honorverse novels,anthologies, and the House of Steel companion and while doing that my curiosity has been raised about certain topics. So, I wanted to ask some of the questions that have come to mind about those topics and see what everyone might think about them.

First, the topic of Havenite ex-patriots. The two most prominent Havenite ex-patriots in the novels are Alfredo Yu and Warner Caslet, both of whom are essentially living in exile on Grayson and unable to return to Haven because of their actions. Now, Yu defected following the failed attempt by the People's Republic to use Masada as a proxy to conquer Grayson. Caslet defected following Harrington's escape from Cerebrus. I'm assuming both are viewed as traitors to the Republic, but what I'm curious about is: does Eloise Pritchart, as President of the Republic of Haven, have the authority to grant pardons or commute sentences? Could she pardon both of them so they could at least return to Haven to visit their homeland? Or are their factors within the Republic's politics that prevent her from clearing them? And where would Thomas Theisman fall in situation? I kind of think Theisman would be on the side of allowing these two men to return home as Yu was his mentor and Caslet served with him at Barnett. Both men broke with their star nation because of previous regimes (Yu because of the Legislaturalists and Caslet because of the Committe).

Second, we know that Queen Elizabeth II amended the Manticoran Constitution to allow her to use her deceased husband's sperm to impregnate herself with an heir to the throne. But what if we were to fast forward four centuries and it was Honor in that position? What if before he was murdered by Denver Summervale, Paul Tankserley had set aside sperm for whatever reason and for whatever reason it came into Honor's possession? Would she use it to have the child that she and Paul were never able to because he was murdered? How would Hamish and/or the Manticoran public react? How would the Graysons view it if she chose to have a child that way because he was the first love of her life?

Third, the Manticoran Wormhole Junction has seven mapped and explored termini, but of all the termini we've learned the least about is Matapan and the associated Asgard and Midgard Federation regions near it. What lies out there in that area of the galaxy? Is it sparsely settled and populated or are there fully developed worlds with minor navies? We know from On Basilisk Station that Emperor Gustav XI was more concerned with Midgard than Haven in 1900 PD. Can we infer from his concern that Midgard possessed a military that could threaten the Andermani Empire? Asgard was supposedly a military protectorate of Midgard, so maybe it did.

But yeah those are the random idle questions I've had recently about the Honorverse.
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by cthia   » Fri May 31, 2019 6:19 am

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Very good questions. I know we fielded the first one in some form or another lurking somewhere in normal space. Essentially, I think we'd all like them pardoned, but seem to think it would be next to impossible, or rather inadvisable, to do so. It could set a precedent for those who defect to expect a pardon down the road. Or it could become the deciding factor for those on the cusp of defecting. Then there's the question of whether either would want to reenter a society where, even though they have been orficially pardoned, they may not be wholly accepted, and even scorned by their peers.

Number two I've touched on myself. I even brought up the scenario of Honor using sperm from Paul to have a baby, but that sperm was switched by the machinations of, at the time, Albrecht Detweiler. Setting up a Star Wars like moment. . . "Luke, I am your father!"

Dunno how Hamish would react. Jealousy is a rather personal thing. I'd simply say that it should be easier since Paul is dead. (Sorry)

As far as the Manticoran society, quite frankly, screw 'em if they don't like it.

Now Grayson is a thornier rose to pick. Honor is a Steadholder and we all remember the problems caused on Grayson for her threatening to have a child out of wedlock. Heck, consider the problems caused to Honor by simply sleeping with a man out of wedlock. A bastard child possibly inheriting a steading? How about a series of deaths from one of those domino effects caused by a sudden string of apoplectic fits!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Theemile   » Fri May 31, 2019 7:56 am

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CaptainPerseus wrote:I've read the Honorverse novels,anthologies, and the House of Steel companion and while doing that my curiosity has been raised about certain topics. So, I wanted to ask some of the questions that have come to mind about those topics and see what everyone might think about them.

First, the topic of Havenite ex-patriots. The two most prominent Havenite ex-patriots in the novels are Alfredo Yu and Warner Caslet, both of whom are essentially living in exile on Grayson and unable to return to Haven because of their actions. Now, Yu defected following the failed attempt by the People's Republic to use Masada as a proxy to conquer Grayson. Caslet defected following Harrington's escape from Cerebrus. I'm assuming both are viewed as traitors to the Republic, but what I'm curious about is: does Eloise Pritchart, as President of the Republic of Haven, have the authority to grant pardons or commute sentences? Could she pardon both of them so they could at least return to Haven to visit their homeland? Or are their factors within the Republic's politics that prevent her from clearing them? And where would Thomas Theisman fall in situation? I kind of think Theisman would be on the side of allowing these two men to return home as Yu was his mentor and Caslet served with him at Barnett. Both men broke with their star nation because of previous regimes (Yu because of the Legislaturalists and Caslet because of the Committe).

Second, we know that Queen Elizabeth II amended the Manticoran Constitution to allow her to use her deceased husband's sperm to impregnate herself with an heir to the throne. But what if we were to fast forward four centuries and it was Honor in that position? What if before he was murdered by Denver Summervale, Paul Tankserley had set aside sperm for whatever reason and for whatever reason it came into Honor's possession? Would she use it to have the child that she and Paul were never able to because he was murdered? How would Hamish and/or the Manticoran public react? How would the Graysons view it if she chose to have a child that way because he was the first love of her life?

Third, the Manticoran Wormhole Junction has seven mapped and explored termini, but of all the termini we've learned the least about is Matapan and the associated Asgard and Midgard Federation regions near it. What lies out there in that area of the galaxy? Is it sparsely settled and populated or are there fully developed worlds with minor navies? We know from On Basilisk Station that Emperor Gustav XI was more concerned with Midgard than Haven in 1900 PD. Can we infer from his concern that Midgard possessed a military that could threaten the Andermani Empire? Asgard was supposedly a military protectorate of Midgard, so maybe it did.

But yeah those are the random idle questions I've had recently about the Honorverse.


First, welcome to the Forum - the first virtual beverage of your choice is on us.

Second - The is a great repository for all types of questions (and David's answers to them) known as the "Pearls of Weber"
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/

From the Pearl known as "Reinforcements for the Battle of Manticore" we find this:

Second, Matapan. The Matapan Terminus hasn't been mentioned very much because it hasn't entered into the events of Manticore's war with Haven. That doesn't mean that Manticore hasn't been involved there.

Matapan lies beyond the Andermani Empire, which gives it even more spatial separation from the Republic than the Empire has, and it's not an especially wealthy region. Actually, it looks rather more impressive on the end paper maps than it is in reality. It's not as poverty-stricken a region as the Talbott Cluster was, by a long chalk, but the settlement in the area is fairly recent (mostly little more than a century old, and almost all of it via the Wormhole Junction), and the economies and populations are still growing at fairly modest rates. Matapan should not be confused with an integrated political unit; the area is considered a "cluster" in the same sense as Talbott. That is, there are several colonized star systems in relatively close proximity to one another, but without any strong central political organization, and without any actual astrographic association between the systems. Because of its isolation from the war front, and the fact that the Matapan Terminus has the lowest traffic volume of any of the Junction's termini, the terminus itself is covered by a handful of fairly light forts and a picket of second or third-line cruisers and destroyers.

In a sense, I suppose I probably should have discussed Matapan in greater detail, because Manticore does provide what comes closest to representing any sort of political unity in the region. Basically, the Star Kingdom has assumed the responsibility of providing basic anti-piracy protection for the youthful colonies in the Matapan Cluster. I think of Matapan as the Star Kingdom's equivalent of the Trucial States in the period between 1820 and 1892.

Should I do an "Honor Harrington in the classroom" and leave looking up "Trucial States" as an exercise for the students? I really should, but since I'm such a nice guy, I won't. The short version is that between around 1820 and 1890 Great Britain "negotiated" a series of truces with the sheikdoms which eventually became the United Arab Emirates to suppress piracy and the slave trade in the Persian Gulf. In 1892 (I think that's the correct date), Great Britain assumed a formal protectorate over the region, which it kept until about 1971. At the moment, Manticore is still far short of exercising any sort of protectorate over Matapan in the sense of explicit political control, but the various independent colonies in the region are satisfied with a security arrangement which doesn't pinch them economically or politically and does firmly discourage any sort of unrest or brigandage. Given the shift in Manticore's traditional foreign policy, it's much more likely that some form of protectorate or even outright formal incorporation into the nascent Star Empire of Manticore may lie in Matapan's future.

The discovery of the third terminus of the Asgerd Wormhole Junction could have implications for Matapan's development, but that terminus was discovered only very shortly before the beginning of the First Havenite War. The Asgerd Association has an… interesting relationship with the Andermani Empire, which generally inspires it to not do anything likely to irritate the Andies, who are both the greatest military threat to it and its most important trading partner. During the period of the First Havenite War, when the Empire was being any "friendly neutral" as far as the Star Kingdom was concerned, Asgerd had all sorts of reasons to avoid any potential brangles with Manticore. Moreover, Asgerd has been much more interested in and involved with Midgard, which is sort of its own version of Matapan. All of this means that there had been a sort of informal division of "spheres of influence" under which Asgerd stayed out of Matapan, leaving the field there clear for the Star Kingdom's "Trucial States" relationship.


And that is about all we know about Matapan. It's way out in the middle of nowhere, sparcely populated, all of the few colonies in the region are young and not very developed, and the RMN is the primary source of stability and defense for the region. If you were look for a new place to colonize, far from known society, Matapan is probably the place I'd start my journey from civilization.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by cthia   » Fri May 31, 2019 8:29 am

cthia
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Yes! Welcome to the forums!

:oops:H GOLLY GEE. Do pardon my manners. Thanks for taking up the slack, Theemile. I think we've finally restocked on virtual Old Tilmans, since the junctions are reopened. If you've taken a liking to liquids filtered from a horse, that is. If not, we can just slip a virtual cocoa on Honor's tab. She'll never catch it amongst all the other real expenditures.

BTW, I don't recall our defectors interacting anywhere in storyline with their old navy, but they must have. Anyone else recall?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Fox2!   » Fri May 31, 2019 8:56 am

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cthia wrote:BTW, I don't recall our defectors interacting anywhere in storyline with their old navy, but they must have. Anyone else recall?


Any interaction with the RHN would probably take place in the context of the Protector's Own and the GSN task force in the Grand Fleet. Considering that the PO is a Fleet in all but name, I would expect that Alfredo, at least, has had some interaction with Theisman. Probably very quietly, and very unofficially.
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by justdave   » Fri May 31, 2019 10:01 am

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Fox2! wrote:
cthia wrote:BTW, I don't recall our defectors interacting anywhere in storyline with their old navy, but they must have. Anyone else recall?


Any interaction with the RHN would probably take place in the context of the Protector's Own and the GSN task force in the Grand Fleet. Considering that the PO is a Fleet in all but name, I would expect that Alfredo, at least, has had some interaction with Theisman. Probably very quietly, and very unofficially.


An interesting short story possibility for a future anthology.
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri May 31, 2019 11:14 am

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CaptainPerseus wrote:I've read the Honorverse novels,anthologies, and the House of Steel companion and while doing that my curiosity has been raised about certain topics. So, I wanted to ask some of the questions that have come to mind about those topics and see what everyone might think about them.

First, the topic of Havenite ex-patriots. The two most prominent Havenite ex-patriots in the novels are Alfredo Yu and Warner Caslet, both of whom are essentially living in exile on Grayson and unable to return to Haven because of their actions. Now, Yu defected following the failed attempt by the People's Republic to use Masada as a proxy to conquer Grayson. Caslet defected following Harrington's escape from Cerebrus. I'm assuming both are viewed as traitors to the Republic, but what I'm curious about is: does Eloise Pritchart, as President of the Republic of Haven, have the authority to grant pardons or commute sentences? Could she pardon both of them so they could at least return to Haven to visit their homeland? Or are their factors within the Republic's politics that prevent her from clearing them? And where would Thomas Theisman fall in situation? I kind of think Theisman would be on the side of allowing these two men to return home as Yu was his mentor and Caslet served with him at Barnett. Both men broke with their star nation because of previous regimes (Yu because of the Legislaturalists and Caslet because of the Committe).
David Weber weighed in on this tangentially about 5 years back in a thread called "Caslet". (BTW, if you weren't aware David's username here is runsforcelery, often abbreviated by other posters as RFC).
runsforcelery wrote:Thus if Pritchart decided that she wanted to issue a presidential pardon to Caslet (which I am not saying --- at this time --- I'm planning on hger doing) for any "crimes" committed against the People's Republic during or after Honor's escape from StateSec custody, she would be entirely within her rights under both the Havenite Constitution and interstellar law.

But that doesn't touch on the possible domestic political fallout she might cause by issuing such a pardon.


As for Honor using Paul's sperm or DNA - I think the Beowulf Code would likely have something to say about that unless Paul left clear instructions that his sperm could be used for such a purpose. So even if Honor wanted to have his posthumous child that might be prohibited.
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Fox2!   » Fri May 31, 2019 11:16 am

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justdave wrote:
Fox2! wrote:
Any interaction with the RHN would probably take place in the context of the Protector's Own and the GSN task force in the Grand Fleet. Considering that the PO is a Fleet in all but name, I would expect that Alfredo, at least, has had some interaction with Theisman. Probably very quietly, and very unofficially.


An interesting short story possibility for a future anthology.


Need to add that, technically, the PO is NOT part of the GSN. They operate in cooperation with the GSN, their ships are the same as the GSN's. But they belong to the Protector in his own right.
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Relax   » Fri May 31, 2019 11:24 am

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CaptainPerseus wrote:
Third, the Manticoran Wormhole Junction has seven mapped and explored termini, but of all the termini we've learned the least about is Matapan and the associated Asgard and Midgard Federation regions near it. What lies out there in that area of the galaxy? Is it sparsely settled and populated or are there fully developed worlds with minor navies? We know from On Basilisk Station that Emperor Gustav XI was more concerned with Midgard than Haven in 1900 PD. Can we infer from his concern that Midgard possessed a military that could threaten the Andermani Empire? Asgard was supposedly a military protectorate of Midgard, so maybe it did.

But yeah those are the random idle questions I've had recently about the Honorverse.

1) welcome
2) Gustav is worried because as is said in UH, "Andies gotta expand" and between regions of Matapan, Asgerd, Silesia, Talbot, and Manticore itself, the Andies are in effect, completely surrounded by the Manticore friends and family plan.

This means either Andy foreign policy must change(when does humanity ever do that unless proven with a GIANT stick upside the head???), or they must ensorcle one or more of these groups to change sides and join ... or there is war.

History shows, ensorcle and war as the #1, and #2 option and not in that order.....
_________
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Relax
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Re: Idle Questions From Reading the Honorverse
Post by Theemile   » Fri May 31, 2019 12:36 pm

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Relax wrote:
CaptainPerseus wrote:
Third, the Manticoran Wormhole Junction has seven mapped and explored termini, but of all the termini we've learned the least about is Matapan and the associated Asgard and Midgard Federation regions near it. What lies out there in that area of the galaxy? Is it sparsely settled and populated or are there fully developed worlds with minor navies? We know from On Basilisk Station that Emperor Gustav XI was more concerned with Midgard than Haven in 1900 PD. Can we infer from his concern that Midgard possessed a military that could threaten the Andermani Empire? Asgard was supposedly a military protectorate of Midgard, so maybe it did.

But yeah those are the random idle questions I've had recently about the Honorverse.

1) welcome
2) Gustav is worried because as is said in UH, "Andies gotta expand" and between regions of Matapan, Asgerd, Silesia, Talbot, and Manticore itself, the Andies are in effect, completely surrounded by the Manticore friends and family plan.

This means either Andy foreign policy must change(when does humanity ever do that unless proven with a GIANT stick upside the head???), or they must ensorcle one or more of these groups to change sides and join ... or there is war.

History shows, ensorcle and war as the #1, and #2 option and not in that order.....


The Andies COULD grow northward from Silesia (Manticore has the ExSE half), But what tasty treats are out there? none so far mentioned... However with just digesting 33 systems from Silesia, they may have their hands busy for awhile.

And CaptainP - if you didn't notice from my earlier post (which I forgot to expound on) Midgerd is the new protectorate of Asgerd, NOT the other way around. We know very little of Asgerd and Midgerd, other than what has already been mentioned. We can infer that Asgerd has some wallers (they are a decent sized polity, and they are actively annoying the Andermani, so they should have a decent fleet, if only to keep the Andermani from borrowing their territory. We can also infer that the Asgerd navy is smaller than the RMN was in 1900, as the RMN was listed as the 3rd largest navy behind the RHN and SLN.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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