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Grayson - We Shall Overcome

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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by tlb   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:48 am

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cthia wrote: I thought Honor was possibly Protestant, or Catholic, as well, but I dunno why.

What is this reference to high and low? Snobs and true Christians come to mind.

Here is an interesting article on the difference between High and Low Church practices:
http://www.crivoice.org/lowhighchurch.html
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:05 pm

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote: I thought Honor was possibly Protestant, or Catholic, as well, but I dunno why.

What is this reference to high and low? Snobs and true Christians come to mind.

Here is an interesting article on the difference between High and Low Church practices:
http://www.crivoice.org/lowhighchurch.html

Yep, snobs and true Christians.

I expected as much. And I was almost certain the high and low is what led me to think Catholic in the first place. At any rate, that's a nice link. Thanks.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:16 pm

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cthia wrote:The fact that you were able to distill all of that down and come up with Protestant, speaks volumes. ;) I thought Honor was possibly Protestant, or Catholic, as well, but I dunno why.

What is this reference to high and low? Snobs and true Christians come to mind.

I don't see Grayson wanting to invite outsiders to commune with them. Which, going out into the community to witness, or any such diplomatic mission, would have to ultimately entail. Or The Church of Humanity Unchained would appear to be a bunch of hypocrites.

Well the Protestant, in the sense of not part of the Catholic or Orthodox church, wasn't too hard a determination for me to come to.
1) You don't really get "flavors" of the Catholic church - so someone from however far in the future couldn't be considered Catholic unless their church fit into the hierarchy that ultimately reported to the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church. So that wouldn't be called something other than the Catholic church.

2) From the quote you provided from At All Costs: "the Third Stellars appear to have no organized hierarchy in the sense your Church or mine does". Well the Catholic, or an Orthodox, church has an organized hierarchy.

So if Third Stellar doesn't have an organized hierarchy it wouldn't be Orthodox (nor would it be any number of current Protestant churches; as some of them do have organized hierarchies) and it isn't the Catholic church, yet is still a Christian church, then be process of elimination it'd have to be categorized as some form of Protestant church.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:23 pm

cthia
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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:The fact that you were able to distill all of that down and come up with Protestant, speaks volumes. ;) I thought Honor was possibly Protestant, or Catholic, as well, but I dunno why.

What is this reference to high and low? Snobs and true Christians come to mind.

I don't see Grayson wanting to invite outsiders to commune with them. Which, going out into the community to witness, or any such diplomatic mission, would have to ultimately entail. Or The Church of Humanity Unchained would appear to be a bunch of hypocrites.

Well the Protestant, in the sense of not part of the Catholic or Orthodox church, wasn't too hard a determination for me to come to.
1) You don't really get "flavors" of the Catholic church - so someone from however far in the future couldn't be considered Catholic unless their church fit into the hierarchy that ultimately reported to the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church. So that wouldn't be called something other than the Catholic church.

2) From the quote you provided from At All Costs: "the Third Stellars appear to have no organized hierarchy in the sense your Church or mine does". Well the Catholic, or an Orthodox, church has an organized hierarchy.

So if Third Stellar doesn't have an organized hierarchy it wouldn't be Orthodox (nor would it be any number of current Protestant churches; as some of them do have organized hierarchies) and it isn't the Catholic church, yet is still a Christian church, then be process of elimination it'd have to be categorized as some form of Protestant church.

Yes, but, non-denominational churches -- which are becoming more and more prevalent in todays world - avoid hierarchy as well. They prefer congregational or elder rule. As does a select number of Baptist churches also.* Independent churches generally follow suit. In light of this, I didn't want to jump to any conclusions, since in the Honorverse the "lack of hierarchy" of the present trend of Independent and non-denominational churches may have become more popular. But, and again, I also thought Protestant.

*Baptist can be either orthodox or unorthodox.

At any rate, your logic is to be commended.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:56 pm

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What's interesting is the main rub between the Moderates and the Faithful. The main disagreement centered around the use of technology. The Faithful considered the use of technology as evil. The Moderates, led by Benjamin, viewed "the way" in which technology was used on Earth is what made it evil. Akin to people incorrectly attributing evil to money, as opposed to "the love of money" which is evil. IOW, neither money nor technology, is inherently evil.

However, the underlying religion seems to be embraced by both. I'm not certain that I view Masada's split from Grayson as a "shism" in the traditional sense. Though it is a schism, the gist of the disagreement didn't seem to be centered around the underlying religion, but in the use of technology. Which reminds me of the Amish. I know that I'm in error, but initially I was thrown for a loop.

At any rate, I see danger looming on Grayson's horizon with Benjamin's Restoration causing another schism as spectacular as the split that created the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Catholics.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:10 pm

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Humm...Moderates who were looking to technology to keep them alive on Grayson vs the Faithful who demanded that everybody (apparently) had to stay at the minimal (and most of the stuff they haden't destroyed eventualy broke so they had to live with "minimal" archaic "simple" technology?
So just how close to that is the Faithful position that was 1st trying to kill all the moderates and then to accept the Moderates taking much of what they could cobble together from the remains of the colony ship equipment etc and send them off to Messed?

You know, the Faithful who are now pirating ships and negotaiting with PRH to give them modern [for the time frame of the book] starships with weapons and going ---yet again- off to Grayson to force the population of Grayson to submit or they will burn them from the face of the planet. Those guys.....who embrace technolgy just fine as long as it props up their theocracy and politcal structure but only for the male portion of the ruling class.

But, you say, they are doing it for the Glory of God and ....blah, blah, rant, rave, etc, etc.
Hypocritical son's-of-bitches.
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