Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

MAD-4A wrote:uh...yea...It's not accelerated. Were you ever even in the military? I was, GMG3 USN. I had a total of 6 months training, including basic training, before being sent to the fleet. The missile loaders in HH (or the hydraulics for the command chairs) aren’t so much more complicated that it would take 4 times more training to figure out how they work. Especially in a society where the average Joe-Schmo on the street rides to his factory job in an Anti-grave vehicle.

So if you knew everything about that gun mount real simple questions. What is a zeroing pin for? What is important that you must do before using one?

Didn't even notice this part SWM's reply post split quotes until , equals ignore for me mostly.

Looking forward to an answer. PM me if you like.

Have fun,
T2M

Hell, my brothers going through elec tech training, and his basic training was 5 months, and then this branch training will be a year. add in the gaps between basic training and his branch training, to allow for shipboard training (4 weeks or so for him), and you come pretty close to 2 years. And he comes out of the training the lowest et level you can be.

SWM wrote:That's on Earth today. In Manticore, you spend two years in training before you get on board a ship, and that's during wartime. And that's for tech third class.

Spacekiwi wrote:Hell, my brothers going through elec tech training, and his basic training was 5 months, and then this branch training will be a year. add in the gaps between basic training and his branch training, to allow for shipboard training (4 weeks or so for him), and you come pretty close to 2 years. And he comes out of the training the lowest et level you can be.

There is a big difference between normal peacetime training and wartime training. I remember poking through the training book in basic one night on CQ and there were major sections that were dropped or massively abbreviated for wartime mobilization training. It went from 8 weeks to 6 weeks IIRC.

The US navy didn't grow is size by 1000% between 1941 and 1943 by sending everyone through 3 years of training before they reached the fleet.

kzt wrote:There is a big difference between normal peacetime training and wartime training. I remember poking through the training book in basic one night on CQ and there were major sections that were dropped or massively abbreviated for wartime mobilization training. It went from 8 weeks to 6 weeks IIRC.

The US navy didn't grow is size by 1000% between 1941 and 1943 by sending everyone through 3 years of training before they reached the fleet.

I think you will find that most of those going aboard ship in 1943 for the first time had been in the Navy from 1941 or early 1942. I have been reading "The Bomber War" by Robin Neillands, and he indicates that most of the bomber crews in WWII took 2 years from induction to first operational sortie.

kzt wrote:

Spacekiwi wrote:Hell, my brothers going through elec tech training, and his basic training was 5 months, and then this branch training will be a year. add in the gaps between basic training and his branch training, to allow for shipboard training (4 weeks or so for him), and you come pretty close to 2 years. And he comes out of the training the lowest et level you can be.

There is a big difference between normal peacetime training and wartime training. I remember poking through the training book in basic one night on CQ and there were major sections that were dropped or massively abbreviated for wartime mobilization training. It went from 8 weeks to 6 weeks IIRC.

The US navy didn't grow is size by 1000% between 1941 and 1943 by sending everyone through 3 years of training before they reached the fleet.

During WWII a noteworthy percentage learned thier jobs on the job. Jobs like Gunners Mate, Boatswain Mate, Quartermaster, Signalman, Enginemen, Electricians Mate Store Keeper, and Stewards Mate

saber964 wrote:During WWII a noteworthy percentage learned their jobs on the job. Jobs like Gunners Mate, Boatswain Mate, Quartermaster, Signalman, Enginemen, Electricians Mate Store Keeper, and Stewards Mate

True, but that only works if you already have an experienced crew that can ride herd on the newbies. If a large percentage of the crew are newbies that are learning on the job it will take a quite some time to become combat effective.

Fiar enough, but I figure that there might be more that the Manties are unable to cut out than we can, what with higher tech levels, and the fact the ships are in space, necessitating higher levels of caution around the ships. Todays wartime mobilisation times might be slightly longer asa a percentage of peace time than the ww2 era, due to increased complexity in the job. And I figure they probably did a bit more on the basic training on ships or some such, as opposed to on lnad like currently, so merging the basic branch training into the onboard advanced training.....

kzt wrote:There is a big difference between normal peacetime training and wartime training. I remember poking through the training book in basic one night on CQ and there were major sections that were dropped or massively abbreviated for wartime mobilization training. It went from 8 weeks to 6 weeks IIRC.

The US navy didn't grow is size by 1000% between 1941 and 1943 by sending everyone through 3 years of training before they reached the fleet.

Spacekiwi wrote:Hell, my brothers going through elec tech training, and his basic training was 5 months, and then this branch training will be a year. add in the gaps between basic training and his branch training, to allow for shipboard training (4 weeks or so for him), and you come pretty close to 2 years. And he comes out of the training the lowest et level you can be.

Yes, that's specialist electronic training. That is not required for the guy in-charge of cleaning the grease out of the Galley vent fans, or keeping the brass in the flag-crapper shiny. As I explained before: the difference in manpower between these ships and Manty “automated” SD’s is “warm bodies” not electronic techs, those jobs would be the same for ANY SD. It’s the little crap jobs that get automated or reduced threw multi-tasking, and those jobs don’t require a doctorate in hyper-physics, they just require a “warm-body” & yes anyone working in a manufacturing facility would have the basic knowledge needed to serve in one of these capacities. The ships have tech manuals. They would not design ships so that EVERYONE onboard has to have a PHD to operate the thing. MOST systems can be figured out by anyone with the basic knowledge & a manual, that’s what they're for! Most of those “warm-body” positions will not need ANY special training, especially if they transfer some of their experienced people to senior positions. A good gunner PO on one of the light cruisers, for example, “retires” & “disappears”, to become a Senior Chief gunner on one of the SDs, or if he’s really good, given a Warrant Commission and made Gunnery Officer. Once some of the newbies get familiar with the assigned systems, they can be transferred to other ships and repeat…

kzt wrote:There is a big difference between normal peacetime training and wartime training. I remember poking through the training book in basic one night on CQ and there were major sections that were dropped or massively abbreviated for wartime mobilization training. It went from 8 weeks to 6 weeks IIRC.
The US navy didn't grow is size by 1000% between 1941 and 1943 by sending everyone through 3 years of training before they reached the fleet.

saber964 wrote:During WWII a noteworthy percentage learned thier jobs on the job. Jobs like Gunners Mate, Boatswain Mate, Quartermaster, Signalman, Enginemen, Electricians Mate Store Keeper, and Stewards Mate

Exactly!!!!
The higher tech levels are countered by the higher basic learning the average person needs just to function. In WWII someone working in a warehouse didn’t need to know a thing about “those weird electrical thingies with all the flashing lights”, now you can’t function in a warehouse without, at-least, basic computer knowledge. The same there, yes they have 2000 yrs more advanced tech, but the basic citizen needs 2000 yrs more advanced training to do his job (as the books stated even most Slaves can't function without technical training - except Pleasure or hunted types). That translates to their shipboard position. Also as I explained, Maya doesn’t need them to be fully operational next week, just available in the near future.
There is no Maya Space Navy yet – only a small squadron of the FF in the Maya sector which has been undermined by the Governor.
& no Basic training is always done before you set foot on a ship, they want to know you're not going to be one of those panicky/cowardly types alluded to earlier.

Joat42 wrote:…I doubt anyone would try to use the USS Texas in a battle today since it's obsolete and would be sunk before even seeing what sunk it…

uh…no, no more than a Nimitz or an LHA. What? You think it would just sail out alone, it didn’t do that in WWI, why would it do that now?

Jonathan_S wrote:I don't know. She's not that much worse protected that the Iowa class (and most of that difference is largely bolt-on point defense weapons; like Phoenix -- or now you'd use SeaRAM). And we used one of them in Desert Storm.

plenty of room in the 40mm & 3” gun emplacements to strip those off & add Phalanx & RAMs

Jonathan_S wrote:Sure that's an expensive and manpower intensive way to provide shore bombardment - but neither BB would be all that likely to be sunk in a similar situation

Not compared to a Carrier, ¼ the crew and much greater sustained Tonnage on target than any carrier can provide. The only advantage any CV ever had over a BB was Range (& even that’s negated with cruisemissiles)

crewdude48 wrote:The current tech disparity is more like between the American Civil War and World War One than it was between WW1 and WW2.

No it is specifically analogued to WWI-to-WWII.

crewdude48 wrote:Because if Maya only matches SLN tech, they will lose any eventual confrontation.

Or they could lose it just because they needed just a few more ships/perhaps ones with good armor & grazer capability in what (may) ended in a knife fight – as 1st Manticore nearly did. Better to have something that matches than nothing at-all. A core of Capitol ships to center the Maya fleet (once it does become an official entity) would serve to give them a strong close-fighting capability to support the long range capacity of the more advanced ships they are building, & if the SLN doesn’t know they have them, then they would likely send their ships in, in penny packets (a squadron or 2 – or just light ships {BC<}) to try and control the area, then the 300+ SDs show up, one or 2 systems at a time, & crush each of them with little loss. (light ships doing recon first to see what's there & large fleets of SDs sent in to ambush small scattered squadrons).

MAD-4A wrote:

Joat42 wrote:…I doubt anyone would try to use the USS Texas in a battle today since it's obsolete and would be sunk before even seeing what sunk it…

uh…no, no more than a Nimitz or an LHA. What? You think it would just sail out alone, it didn’t do that in WWI, why would it do that now?

But that's just the point. We are doing an analogous comparison between the captured SD's and WWI ships that both is very old but upgraded and somewhat modernized.

In both instances their survivability is dependent on modern ships protecting them and they also need a lot of upgrades to be somewhat combat effective.

On top of that their engagement range is severely limited and they can't engage because of this, otherwise they would have to close the range and leave the protection of the modern ships in the fleet that has the range.

For the SD's to become effective they would need a complete refit (nodes, missile tubes, combat information systems, counter missiles, ECM, compensators, armor etc etc), which we already have established isn't a practical solution - both in cost and the time spent doing it.

Using them as they are in a TF with modern ships is problematical since they can't even keep up during combat maneuvering. All in all, they are just big honking piñatas for the enemy which in a sense is a way to use them but I doubt they would find a lot of suicide candidates to crew them.