Honorverse favorite one-liners

cthia wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:"I always like to see my people stay in shape... and I like to think they can take careof themselves if they want to."

Gotta love the not so subtle message to go ahead and bash some heads.

Can anyone identify this bogey? Transponder not broadcasting.

Sorry for not putting the 'source'.

Honor to Wanderman after her sparring match with the Marine non-com.

A Ginny one liner!

"He's all yours, Kevin. I'm going into the other room to masturbate, even if the pay is scandalous."

Changer of Worlds
The first story we see her.

Perhaps it wasn't really Dunecki's fault. The range was insanely short for modern warships, dropping towards one which could be measured in hundreds of kilometers and not thousands, and no sane naval officer would even have contemplated engaging at such close quarters. Nor had either Dunecki or Bachfisch planned on doing any such thing, for each had expected to begin and end the battle with a single broadside which would take his enemy completely by surprise. But whatever they'd planned, their ships were here now, and no one in any navy trained its officers for combat maneuvers in such close proximity to an enemy warship. And because of that, Anders Dunecki, for all of his experience, was completely unprepared for what War Maiden actually did.

Ok, RFC, this I don't understand. I realize that this situation is unique in that it is rare, but it seems inevitable. Sometimes the only tactical maneuver available is to close with the enemy ship, as Honor did in her deathride.

In all of an officer's training, and all of the class instruction and simulations driven into students, I can't imagine that these type maneuvers wouldn't be pre-requisites. It's akin to studying chess to become a grand master but ignoring the 'end game.' These such in-close proximity maneuvers should be freshman year Tactics 101. Intuitively, they seem the same type maneuvers as Top Gun--The United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program. Has the edge been lost?

Johnatan_S wrote:
Dunecki came out of the IAN, and I'd have been surprised if their simulations didn't include the occasional close range energy combat. Although 1/5 the distance at which energy range combat becomes effective is really close range. (And Honorverse energy weapons seem to suffer fairly significant power loss at range; so moving closer means you're putting a lot more energy through the sidewall and into the target.)

But mostly I'd guess that Dunecki might have been intellectually trained to deal with close range energy combat; but that can be a far cry from being emotionally and viscerally prepared to keep acting while your ship is rapidly disintegrating around you.

Studying the correct actions, or even carrying them out in sims where umpires are taking 'destroyed' systems offline and tagging casualties doesn't mean that you can still quickly perform those actions correctly in the shock of brutal short range combat.

Good point. But that just underscores the need that those certain contingencies should be taught anyway. It reminds me of all the times the Havenites, and lately the SLN, found themselves up against an impossibly unprecedented threat environment because of new Manty super weapons, yet in all the cases thorough training slotted into place.

My point. Teach your students all possible scenarios. When Honor was teaching at Saganami, you know she got swamped with queries concerning her battles, her many battles, in which many of them she found herself in unpdecedented situations. I can't imagine a student asking Honor about possible tactics against enemy ships where one may find himself at knife-fighting range and getting a response like 'don't worry about it. Those are not the kinds of ranges in which graser matches are fought.'

'But what if you do find yourself in that exact position mam?'

'Don't worry you won't.'

'But what if you do, mam?'

'Well just place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Teach the darn tactics!

cthia wrote:Perhaps it wasn't really Dunecki's fault. The range was insanely short for modern warships, dropping towards one which could be measured in hundreds of kilometers and not thousands, and no sane naval officer would even have contemplated engaging at such close quarters. Nor had either Dunecki or Bachfisch planned on doing any such thing, for each had expected to begin and end the battle with a single broadside which would take his enemy completely by surprise. But whatever they'd planned, their ships were here now, and no one in any navy trained its officers for combat maneuvers in such close proximity to an enemy warship. And because of that, Anders Dunecki, for all of his experience, was completely unprepared for what War Maiden actually did.

Ok, RFC, this I don't understand. I realize that this situation is unique in that it is rare, but it seems inevitable. Sometimes the only tactical maneuver available is to close with the enemy ship, as Honor did in her deathride.

In all of an officer's training, and all of the class instruction and simulations driven into students, I can't imagine that these type maneuvers wouldn't be pre-requisites. It's akin to studying chess to become a grand master but ignoring the 'end game.' These such in-close proximity maneuvers should be freshman year Tactics 101. Intuitively, they seem the same type maneuvers as Top Gun--The United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program. Has the edge been lost?

Johnatan_S wrote:
Dunecki came out of the IAN, and I'd have been surprised if their simulations didn't include the occasional close range energy combat. Although 1/5 the distance at which energy range combat becomes effective is really close range. (And Honorverse energy weapons seem to suffer fairly significant power loss at range; so moving closer means you're putting a lot more energy through the sidewall and into the target.)

But mostly I'd guess that Dunecki might have been intellectually trained to deal with close range energy combat; but that can be a far cry from being emotionally and viscerally prepared to keep acting while your ship is rapidly disintegrating around you.

Studying the correct actions, or even carrying them out in sims where umpires are taking 'destroyed' systems offline and tagging casualties doesn't mean that you can still quickly perform those actions correctly in the shock of brutal short range combat.

Good point. But that just underscores the need that those certain contingencies should be taught anyway. It reminds me of all the times the Havenites, and lately the SLN, found themselves up against an impossibly unprecedented threat environment because of new Manty super weapons, yet in all the cases thorough training slotted into place.

My point. Teach your students all possible scenarios. When Honor was teaching at Saganami, you know she got swamped with queries concerning her battles, her many battles, in which many of them she found herself in unpdecedented situations. I can't imagine a student asking Honor about possible tactics against enemy ships where one may find himself at knife-fighting range and getting a response like 'don't worry about it. Those are not the kinds of ranges in which graser matches are fought.'

'But what if you do find yourself in that exact position mam?'

'Don't worry you won't.'

'But what if you do, mam?'

'Well just place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Teach the darn tactics![/quote]

cthia, I think I finally understand what you are asking.

The silly answer:
Admiral Ping There is no secret training.
Ensign Po: Wait, wait... it's just plain old combat maneuvering? You don't have some kind of special attack maneuver school or something?
Admiral Ping: Don't have to. To make a maneuver special you just have to believe it's special.
Ensign Po: There is no secret training...

My real answer is they already do. The training they get in the fleet is everything they need. Honor got the same training as the rest of her middies. She was the one on watch who pulled it off. She didn't make up anything new. She just did what everyone who has seriously trained for their profession has done. Brought it all together (of which she has a natural flair for). There is no way you can train for every variable. I've seen the book that top gun was based on. It is the basics of every maneuver possible and it is a smaller book than you would believe. Our fighter pilots don't train for "let's play chicken" (that just gets us killed and wastes equipment), but it is because of their understanding of the basics in which they continually drill and how those maneuvers can be combined that they can face those rare moments when someone wants to get close and personal. I know I probably oversimplified that but in the Top Gun school that's what they teach in a concentrated form then the pilots go to the fleet and share what they learned. Same thing with the Crusher, in that the up and coming commanders learn the best the RMN has to offer and take that back to the fleet. Honor definitely had good teachers and a willingness to learn and it showed and she wasn't alone. Everybody drilled in the basics. It's the basics that saved the War Hammer which Honor brought all together as she was taught to do, not any special maneuvers. In the Honorverse the RMN is justifiably feared and respected by many who have gone up against them because they fight like they train. For keeps.

I base this opinion off of my own experience from being in the military.

Off tangent. If you get a chance look up Colonel John Boyd and the OODA loop. He was the godfather of modern aerial combat and a very interesting character.

"I was younger then, Admiral," Honor said almost demurely. "And I was mildly irritated, at the time."

“So you're confident you can neutralize their system defense command and control systems?" Givens asked, but her attention was more than half on Hemphill, and Honor smiled.
"Admiral Hemphill and I haven't always been on the same page," she began, and Hemphill actually chuckled.
"You might say that, Your Grace," she said, "if you're given to understatement. I seem to recall a rather passionate debriefing you gave the Weapons Development Board after that little affair in Basilisk."
"I was younger then, Admiral," Honor said almost demurely. "And I was mildly irritated, at the time."
"And rightly so," Hemphill said with a nod. She shook her head. "I don't believe I've ever had the opportunity to actually tell you this, Your Grace, but I always envisioned Fearless as a testbed. I never expected her to be committed to combat, especially not totally unsupported. The fact that you managed to win was an impressive testimony to your tactical ability. And the fact that you were—'mildly irritated,' I believe you said—was certainly understandable. Besides," she chuckled again, "having watched your track record over the last few years, I'm inclined to doubt you've mellowed all that much since."
"Not mellowed," Honor said with another smile. "Just gained a greater sense of... diplomacy."

"Not mellowed," Honor said with another smile. "Just gained a greater sense of... diplomacy."

yeah ok Salamander. That's not what the Solarian League said.

cthia wrote:Good point. But that just underscores the need that those certain contingencies should be taught anyway. It reminds me of all the times the Havenites, and lately the SLN, found themselves up against an impossibly unprecedented threat environment because of new Manty super weapons, yet in all the cases thorough training slotted into place.

My point. Teach your students all possible scenarios. When Honor was teaching at Saganami, you know she got swamped with queries concerning her battles, her many battles, in which many of them she found herself in unpdecedented situations. I can't imagine a student asking Honor about possible tactics against enemy ships where one may find himself at knife-fighting range and getting a response like 'don't worry about it. Those are not the kinds of ranges in which graser matches are fought.'

'But what if you do find yourself in that exact position mam?'

'Don't worry you won't.'

'But what if you do, mam?'

'Well just place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Teach the darn tactics!

There isn't any tactics to fighting at a few thousand kilometers range. There is nothing you can do except fire and fire and keep firing. Dunecki was unprepared for the result because everyone would be unprepared to see the devastation from grasers fired at that range. The text isn't saying that Dunecki was not prepared sufficiently in his Academy; it is saying that there is no way to be prepared for it.

No one trains people to face an enemy ship at 2000 km because engaging at that range is suicide.

cthia wrote: This all makes me wonder about the maximum distance of treecat mind glows. Does anyone know whether the distance limitation has been definitively given?

Something like it has been stated in A Beautiful Friendship, the expanded short story/first Stephanie Harrington novel. The main antagonist is trying to determine what the maximum range is that the treecat can sense him (e.g. the mind-glow's reach).

Which was how he knew he'd been precisely one hundred and fourteen meters from the restaurant when Lionheart suddenly stopped chewing his celery and turned to stare in the very direction from which Bolgeo was approaching.

Also:

So, he thought now, tipping back in his chair and clasping his hands on the back of his head as he gazed up at the ceiling, the little critter picked me up at just over a hundred meters. And he tracked me outbound to just over a hundred meters. So I think we can probably take his . . ."empathic detection range," for want of a better term, as a hundred meters. Of course, that's here in town. Twin Forks may be a podunk little burg, but there's probably enough people around to produce a lot of . . . background noise.

He frowned thoughtfully. There was no way to know just how distracting an empath might find the emotions of others. Would it be like trying to listen for a single voice in a roomful of talking people? Or could the treecats block out emotions they didn't want to hear? Could they listen for a single emotional . . fingerprint, call it, without being distracted by the other humans in the area?

Best to assume his range is knocked back if there are a lot of other people in the vicinity, Bolgeo decided. It'll be a lot smarter to operate on the assumption that he can "hear" me--or someone else--from a lot farther away out in the woods. On the other hand, let's not get too carried away with allowing for that. So if he could pick me up at a hundred meters here in town, let's assume he could pick me up at . . .oh, two hundred meters in the bush.

Is this what you were asking?

Changer of Worlds

"That could be a liability in a Navy career," the lieutenant said cheerfully. He looked across the table at a round-faced, dark-complexioned lieutenant commander and grinned. "Some of us," he observed, "seem to be of the opinion that His Majesty's starships actually run on caffeine, not reactor mass. In fact, some of us seem to feel that it's our responsibility to rebunker regularly by taking that caffeine on internally."

Repoire initiated via Honor's dislike for coffee. A dislike that I share, well, except in the lost art of dunking biscuits.

Now I was never in the military but I'm a military brat and many of my brothers and sisters were. And they all love the stuff. Black. Hot. Strong. No sugar. Bleh!

My father's mornings: Beetle Bailey and coffee.
I think this is what began my allowance. My father made a deal with me to collect the morning paper, from wherever off-mark target it landed from the paper boy, open it to Beetle Bailey and have his favorite coffee cup ready.

I think the military included a mainlined shot of coffee along with regular vaccinations and booster shots.

Oh come on, you just know one of 'em is just pure coffee!
To begin the addiction.

Rakhmamort wrote:Sorry for not putting the 'source'.

Honor to Wanderman after her sparring match with the Marine non-com.

It's ok. We all forget to turn on our lights.
I have driven home from work, two hours once upon a time, at night with only my parking lights.


Changer of Worlds

"Yeah, you," Flanagan told him. "You ever see such a hapless bunch in your entire life? I swear, I think one or two of them aren't real clear on which hatch to open first on the air lock!"

Hillarious, because it's probably true.

cthia wrote:Changer of Worlds

"That could be a liability in a Navy career," the lieutenant said cheerfully. He looked across the table at a round-faced, dark-complexioned lieutenant commander and grinned. "Some of us," he observed, "seem to be of the opinion that His Majesty's starships actually run on caffeine, not reactor mass. In fact, some of us seem to feel that it's our responsibility to rebunker regularly by taking that caffeine on internally."

Repoire initiated via Honor's dislike for coffee. A dislike that I share, well, except in the lost art of dunking biscuits.

Now I was never in the military but I'm a military brat and many of my brothers and sisters were. And they all love the stuff. Black. Hot. Strong. No sugar. Bleh!

My father's mornings: Beetle Bailey and coffee.
I think this is what began my allowance. My father made a deal with me to collect the morning paper, from wherever off-mark target it landed from the paper boy, open it to Beetle Bailey and have his favorite coffee cup ready.

I think the military included a mainlined shot of coffee along with regular vaccinations and booster shots.

Oh come on, you just know one of 'em is just pure coffee!
To begin the addiction.

I guess that makes me really rare - I was in the Air Force. Couldn't stand coffee before I went in, and came out still hating the stuff. Nary a drop passed my lips.

Oddly enough, when it was my turn to run the squadron snack bar, my coffee got quite a bit of praise. Don't know what I was doing different - I just followed the instructions on the can and kept the coffee maker and pots clean.