New ship idea

phillies wrote:As seems to be forgotten, the BSDF will be fighting other SLN Invincible Star Superdreadnaughts, against which they should be perfectly effective.

Hoo, boy.

Only on a 1-to-1 basis or with numerical superiority. 36 against about 1800 still in commission. A fight with Tsang's task force would have seen the end of the BSDF wall, which is why the RMN had to make an appearance. Sending this SDF up against the SLN is contraindicated, especially if they do not have the updated compensators, which would force any accompanying GA forces to sacrifice its acceleration advantage. The difference in EW and missile defense capabilities also means any SLN launches would be more likely to hit them.

munroburton wrote:

phillies wrote:As seems to be forgotten, the BSDF will be fighting other SLN Invincible Star Superdreadnaughts, against which they should be perfectly effective.

Hoo, boy.

Only on a 1-to-1 basis or with numerical superiority. 36 against about 1800 still in commission. A fight with Tsang's task force would have seen the end of the BSDF wall, which is why the RMN had to make an appearance. Sending this SDF up against the SLN is contraindicated, especially if they do not have the updated compensators, which would force any accompanying GA forces to sacrifice its acceleration advantage. The difference in EW and missile defense capabilities also means any SLN launches would be more likely to hit them.

Hi munroberton,

Probably not 36 against 1800. Most of those other 1800 are scattered around the League and will shortly be preoccupied with other agenda as the Alliance rachets up its attack.

I would suspect that the quality of the Beowulf SDs and the training would be considerably better than the SLN. Besides, who thinks those SDs will be facing the League alone? Beowulf is going to be the Alliances missile supply as well as manufacturing Keyhole IIs. After the plebiscite, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a very substantial Alliance task force put in Beowulf's orbit to make sure that its source of those things doesn't suffer a mishap.

Don

Hi MunroBurton,

Theoretically the BSDF's 36 SD's could provide the crews for 200 alliance type Invictuses, which is what Bolthole is building now, while Haven and 2-3 nearby systems are completing the last 400 of the second war's 1200 this fall and winter, Bolthole having built the first 800.

How quickly they can deliver will also be interesting, since ~130 weeks was their previous record.

Always looking forward to more of your posts.

L

munroburton wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Phillies,

Given how far ahead in numbers the RMN, GSN and RHN are in SDP's, I suspect the BSDF will make quite a strong case to be the first recipient, especially since all the really high tech stuff will be built and fitted in their system.

L

That's quite a good point. Even with the need to retrain Beowulfan personnel, there are 36 obsolete deathtraps carrying ~220,000 spacers.

Assuming the automation equipment is installed aboard the Bolthole Specials, they could man nearly 150 SD(P)s.

Didn't Bolthole build around 120 of the RHN's first SD(P)s?

[quote="n7axw
Hi munroberton,

Probably not 36 against 1800. Most of those other 1800 are scattered around the League and will shortly be preoccupied with other agenda as the Alliance rachets up its attack.

I would suspect that the quality of the Beowulf SDs and the training would be considerably better than the SLN. Besides, who thinks those SDs will be facing the League alone? Beowulf is going to be the Alliances missile supply as well as manufacturing Keyhole IIs. After the plebiscite, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a very substantial Alliance task force put in Beowulf's orbit to make sure that its source of those things doesn't suffer a mishap.

Don[/quote]


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Don & all --

(1) I would be curious about the class / capabilities of the Beowulf SDF's current SD's -- are they modified SLN Scientist / Vega ships or are they closer to modified RMN Gryphon's ?
(2) Like a couple of the earlier posts, Beowulf can make a good argument for receiving SD(P)'s to augment / retire / reserve their current Non-pod SD's.
(3) The rapid deployment of KHII and Mycroft defense platforms in Beowulf and Beowulf Terminus orbit will have "something" to say about Beowulf system security.
(4) I suspect there will be sufficient deployed pods and platforms to drive off Kingsford's expeditionary force and seal the plebecide, especially if the SLN force arrives and attempts a launch prior to the vote.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:[quote="n7axw
Hi munroberton,

Probably not 36 against 1800. Most of those other 1800 are scattered around the League and will shortly be preoccupied with other agenda as the Alliance rachets up its attack.

I would suspect that the quality of the Beowulf SDs and the training would be considerably better than the SLN. Besides, who thinks those SDs will be facing the League alone? Beowulf is going to be the Alliances missile supply as well as manufacturing Keyhole IIs. After the plebiscite, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a very substantial Alliance task force put in Beowulf's orbit to make sure that its source of those things doesn't suffer a mishap.

Don

---------------

Don & all --

(1) I would be curious about the class / capabilities of the Beowulf SDF's current SD's -- are they modified SLN Scientist / Vega ships or are they closer to modified RMN Gryphon's ?
(2) Like a couple of the earlier posts, Beowulf can make a good argument for receiving SD(P)'s to augment / retire / reserve their current Non-pod SD's.
(3) The rapid deployment of KHII and Mycroft defense platforms in Beowulf and Beowulf Terminus orbit will have "something" to say about Beowulf system security.
(4) I suspect there will be sufficient deployed pods and platforms to drive off Kingsford's expeditionary force and seal the plebecide, especially if the SLN force arrives and attempts a launch prior to the vote.

-- Stewart[/quote]

Hi Stewart,

I am not aware of textev on this subject. But it seems natural to assume that they are supplied by the Solarian League.

Where I would expect the difference to be would be in the seriousness they took in updates to the hardware since it is unlikely that Beowulf tolerates the graft that is routinely practiced in the SLN. While we know that the Beowulfers don't have current generation Mantie hardware as a precaution against it falling into the hands of the SLN, they probably do have some of the better stuff the Manties were using pre-Buttercup. And I would assume they have developed a few wrinkles of their own. While their R&D hasn't been in the same pressure cooker that war has produced for Manticore, unlike the Leagues, it probably is real.

Another difference would be that Beowulf's officer corps would lack the SLN's arrogant sense of superiority. We know that they have benn conducting fleet exercises with Manticore which implies training in solving real fleet problems rather than feel good exercises which would mean that Beowulf's officer corps would be considerably more capable than the Leagues.

This entire post is almost pure speculation based on what little we do know about Beowulf. I may well have over reached a bit here. But I would be surprised if I was off by very far.

Don

n7axw wrote:

stewart wrote:[quote="n7axw

This entire post is almost pure speculation based on what little we do know about Beowulf. I may well have over reached a bit here. But I would be surprised if I was off by very far.

Don

----------------

Don --

You are probably not off by much. Beowulf SDF tactical sims are likely MUCH more realistic and closer to RMN or RHN (post-Theisman coup) than any non-Mayan SLN sim.
You're likely right that the Beowulf SDF SD's are either Scientist / Vega or modified Vega SD's .
I would still be curious if there were any "unpublished" variations between the SLN and B-SDF.

-- Stewart

It is my vague recollection that Beowulf uses its own designs. And if they have very heavy power mains, excess unused space for electronics, etc, and really big missile tubes with sabot-wrapped missiles..well they are backwards relative to the SLN and have to be more conservative in their designs.

phillies wrote:It is my vague recollection that Beowulf uses its own designs. And if they have very heavy power mains, excess unused space for electronics, etc, and really big missile tubes with sabot-wrapped missiles..well they are backwards relative to the SLN and have to be more conservative in their designs.

Nah, that was our suggestion. David never commented on our suggestions.

phillies wrote:It is my vague recollection that Beowulf uses its own designs. And if they have very heavy power mains, excess unused space for electronics, etc, and really big missile tubes with sabot-wrapped missiles..well they are backwards relative to the SLN and have to be more conservative in their designs.

This is something I believed / said occasionally years ago. Now I believe it even more strongly. If you have recent SD's with replacement, most-modern, launchers optimized for MDMs (to include perhaps slightly improved cycle times)and off bore launch, and fire-control electronics supporting double (or even triple) stacked salvos, with some kind of KH-lite equivalent, then you pretty much DO NOT NEED SD(P)s.

Do the math. Salvo density can be comparable, and you get some gains in improved protection, magazine depth, and internal arrangement.

Which in the end means that Beowulf does not NEED to scratch build radically new pattern SDs, if they have allowed for the implementation of Manti-type tech in their last couple of designs / rebuilds.

dreamrider

BSDF SD are flying and deadly junk, better for Manticore would be to put them into furnaces and use it to build new ships. Grayson would have shipyards coming online in next year or so. And of they will need to build ships very fast first Invictuses should be ready in three maybe four year period. Bolthole must be upgraded and that should take around three maybe six months and after that they should be able to be building around four or six hundred Invictuses at the same time.