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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:05 pm

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Vince wrote:Sphinxian celery is regular celery that was genetically modified by Dr. Marjorie Harrington so that it would grow on Sphinx.


Yes, we know that -- well, maybe not who, but what.

What that quote highlights is the fragility of celery in hostile environments. It is entirely possible that celery would have to be tailored for each and very planet where it was introduced. It is also possible that any changes required for other planets will disable to Sphinxian supplement.

As long as we're talking about franken-foods, I wonder if the necessary "bright-mind" supplement can be genengineered into rabbits? Tree cats like rabbit almost as much as they like celery and rabbit suits their digestive tract much better than celery. :ugeek:
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by John Prigent   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:33 pm

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How in Heaven's name [i]could[i] treecats be native to any planet other than Sphinx? :shock: RFC hasn't suggested that their ancestors had interstellar transport, has he ?
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cthia wrote:[They also say, that certain metals and nutrients introduced into the cats diet from Purple Thorn and living on Sphinx may act in tandem to produce other hidden benefits that the cats need. The cats not being native to any other planet might be for a reason. And Purple Thorn could be properly cultivated on Sphinx and shipped to Grayson, etc.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:47 pm

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John Prigent wrote:How in Heaven's name [i]could[i] treecats be native to any planet other than Sphinx? :shock: RFC hasn't suggested that their ancestors had interstellar transport, has he ?
Cheers
John
cthia wrote:[They also say, that certain metals and nutrients introduced into the cats diet from Purple Thorn and living on Sphinx may act in tandem to produce other hidden benefits that the cats need. The cats not being native to any other planet might be for a reason. And Purple Thorn could be properly cultivated on Sphinx and shipped to Grayson, etc.

English is not their native language. Not even their second. They are Romanian. Most speak several languages.

I am sure that what they mean is that natural selection, or whatever mechanism the universe employs, chose Sphinx, and not any other planet for treecat life, for a reason.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:54 pm

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With Honorverse tech, I wonder if there are deaf people on developed planets such as Manticore, the SL and Haven. If so, imagine the delight of a child that already speaks sign who comes into contact for the first time with a cat, and can immediately communicate with said cat in some manner.

Can you imagine a kid nowadays who find themselves readily able to actually talk to their cats?

"Today you be the patient."

<Hide-n-Seek?>

"I don't like playing that game with cats. You smell where I'm hiding. You cheat."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by drothgery   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:22 pm

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cthia wrote:With Honorverse tech, I wonder if there are deaf people on developed planets such as Manticore, the SL and Haven.
I'd have to assume that it's extremely rare or nonexistent, or the automated sign to English translation devices that we occasionally talk about in the forums (and which are almost possible with present-day tech) would be have been readily available to the first signing treecat.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:41 pm

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SWM wrote:
cthia wrote:That actually came from the wiki. Per my original post.
[wiki quote inlined]--------------
wiki:
Treecats were primarily carnivores, though they required steady access to certain vegetables to stay healthy. All treecats were enthusiastic about the Terran vegetable celery, as they enjoyed the taste. Sphinxian adapted celery had been genetically modified to fix certain trace elements in the Sphinx ecosystem, and provided an unexpected benefit to treecats, who were able to absorb some trace chemicals from it (much better than the closest Sphinxian vegetable, purple thorn) and boost their mental abilities to new intensities. Unfortunately, they are unable to adequately digest Terran vegetables, including celery, and their teeth are unsuited to its fibrous qualities, so eating "too much" celery caused difficulties.
-----[end of wiki quote]

I think that statement in the wiki means "telepathic abilities" when it says "mental abilities". Whoever wrote that is using ambiguous text. As far as I can recall, there is no textev to support the idea that treecats using purple thorn or celery gain any intelligence--the text just says that it affects their telepathic abilities.
I agree the wording in the wiki is misleading.

What the purple thorn did, as Honor explains it in War of Honor, is specifically provided a trace compound that was "either necessary or extremely beneficial to the maintenance of the 'cats' empathic and telepathic senses."

Now while those senses are "mental abilities", the wiki phrasing makes it sound like an IQ enhancer -- and I agree I can't recall any text-ev that indicated that.



Also, I got the impression that it was less that a sufficiency enhanced those senses and more that a deficiency impaired them. (So more access, beyond the minimum necessary level probably doesn't do much; and at extreme concentrations might even have other unwanted side effects)

I think that would be especially true of a prolonged deficiency while growing; which might cause a permanent impairment. Whereas 'cats who might be away from Sphinx for many months on a warship don't have any permanent impairment mentioned; so I think it more likely that at most a mature 'cat deprived of the trace element might suffer a slight and temporary impairment to those senses.

So giving them more access seems unlikely (to me) to superpower any of a 'cat's "metal powers" :D
OTOH with offworld colonies of 'cats being set up (including Nimitz and Samatha's kittens, access to that trace element, w/o relying on shipments from Sphinx, should be a bit of a priority)
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:01 pm

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I have finally managed to get another sister to read an HH book.

"Well how did you like it sis?"

"Pretty good until I realized that there are tollbooths in space too!" :roll:


" :o :lol: "

(My sister hates tollbooths with a passion.)

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:23 pm

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cthia wrote:I have finally managed to get another sister to read an HH book.

"Well how did you like it sis?"

"Pretty good until I realized that there are tollbooths in space too!" :roll:


" :o :lol: "

(My sister hates tollbooths with a passion.)

Except that these toll booths are more like the EZ-pay drive through without stopping - which are slightly less onerous.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:31 pm

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On Basilisk Station
The commissioner's mouth twisted at her expression, and she rose from behind her desk, turning the com terminal to direct its pickup at her coffee table. A strange weapon lay on it, looking very like some crude version of a pulse rifle, except that it had neither a magazine nor a proper stock. Instead of a vertical butt stock, it ended in a flat, horizontal arc of curved metal, perpendicular to the line of the barrel.

"See this?" Dame Estelle's voice asked from beyond the pickup's range.

"Yes, Ma'am. What is it?"

"This is what killed Matt, Honor. My people tell me it's a single-shot, breech-loading flintlock rifle. One built for a Medusan."

"What?!" Astonishment startled the response out of Honor before she could stop it, and Dame Estelle's hands appeared on her screen as the commissioner lifted the clumsy-looking weapon.

"That was my response," she said grimly. "This—" she touched the curved metal arm "—is the butt plate. It's made of metal because there's no decent wood on the planet, and it's shaped like this because Medusans don't really have shoulders. It's designed to go across the firer's chest to absorb the recoil, but that's not the most interesting part of it. Look."

She turned the weapon on its side and gripped a small knob on the trigger guard, then cranked the entire guard through a half turn. A plug of metal dropped vertically out of the barrel, and the commissioner lifted it to show the opened breech to the pickup.

"It's a very ancient form of breech-closure for nitro-powder weapons, though I understand it usually operates in line with the barrel, not vertically." Dame Estelle's voice was almost distant, a dry, lecturer's voice like a buttress against her own shock. "It's called an 'interrupted screw,'" she went on. "Basically, it's nothing more than a long, coarse-threaded screw with the threads cut away on two sides so it only takes a half-turn to engage or disengage it. One of my com techs is an antique weapons buff, and she tells me it's the only practical way to achieve a gas-proof breech seal on a weapon that uses loose-loaded propellant. They shove a hollow-based projectile of soft lead about eighteen millimeters in diameter in here, put the powder behind it, and close the breech."

Her hands demonstrated on the screen, and she turned the weapon on its side.

"Then they pull back this hammer, which opens this little pan, and they put more loose powder into it. When they pull the trigger—"

The S-shaped hammer snapped forward, striking the lump of flint in its jaws against the roughened inner surface of the pan lid, and a brilliant spark flashed.

Dame Estelle dumped the weapon back onto the table and returned to her desk, swinging her terminal until she looked out of it at Honor once more, and her face was grim.

"A Medusan could reload this a lot more quickly than we could," she went on. "If he puts the butt directly over one of his arms, he could actually reload and re-prime it with that arm without even lowering it from firing position with the other two. And it's a lot longer-ranged and more accurate than you might think. The barrel is rifled, and the explosion of the powder—old-fashioned black powder, not even nitro-cellulose, they tell me—spreads the hollow base of the projectile, forcing it into the rifling and spin-stabilizing it. It's no pulse rifle, Honor, but according to my weapons buff's best guesstimate, this thing is probably accurate to two or even three hundred meters . . . and we have no idea how many of them are out there."

"Dear God," Honor murmured, her mind racing as she envisioned thousands of Medusans armed with those primitive but deadly weapons.

"Exactly," the commissioner said harshly. "It's crude, very crude, but that's because someone took considerable pains to make it look that way. The actual manufacture is quite good, and, given the current Medusan level of technology, it's an ideal weapon for them: simple, sturdy, and within their own manufacturing capabilities, even if only barely. But there is no way—no way—this many sudden advances could occur naturally in one lump. My com tech tells me it took centuries for Old Earth to advance from crude, fuse-fired smoothbores to anything remotely like this. In fact, she insists no one on Old Earth ever produced one that incorporated all of these features, except for something called a 'Fergusson Rifle,' or something like that. And that one never went into mass production. So—"

"So at least the design had to come from someone off-world." Honor's voice was equally harsh, and Dame Estelle nodded.

"My own opinion, precisely. Some greedy idiot has jumped the Medusans' ability to kill one another—or us—by something like fifteen hundred T-years." The Resident Commissioner looked strained and old, and her hand trembled slightly as she brushed hair back from her forehead. "He's brought this abortion in through my security, and he's turned it over to the nomads in the Outback, not even to the Delta city-states. Even if we nail him, there's no way to put this genie back into the bottle if he's taught the Medusans how to build the things. In fact, they're bound to figure out how to make heavier weapons—real, honest-to-God artillery—so unless we want to take over the role of guaranteeing the Delta's security with off-world weaponry, we're going to have to encourage the city-states to learn how to make the goddamned things just so they can defend themselves! And worst of all, our forensic people think the Medusans who killed Matt were hopped to the breathing slits on mekoha—the same off-world mekoha we've been seeing clear on the other side of the Mossybacks."

"But . . . why?" Honor asked slowly.

"I don't know," Dame Estelle sighed. "I just don't know. I can't think of a single commodity on this planet that could possibly be worth this kind of investment, Honor. Not one. And that," she finished softly, "scares me a lot worse than if I could."


I never understood why Haven didn't just teach them how to make heavier weapons. Then they wouldn't have had to worry about even Young discovering huge shipments of arms.

Or, since they knew Young would be the one guarding the gate, why they didn't just plan to smuggle thousands of tailor-made heavy artillery to the Stilthies.

It wouldn't have changed the final result, but the RMN officers and reps on the ground would have been toast.

And the Stilthies are going to remember that slaughter when they do get around to advancing that uncorked genie.

And what was the reason for Coglin or the courier boat to be needed. Just have a guy on planet looking at his Timex until time to yell charge!

And then the RHN just happen to stroll in-system at the appointed time, "Well what do we have here?"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:40 pm

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cthia wrote:Or, since they knew Young would be the one guarding the gate, why they didn't just plan to smuggle thousands of tailor-made heavy artillery to the Stilthies.


It's called Plausible Deniability.

It's remotely possible some Stilty genious came up with the breechloading flintlock and black powder. It is NOT plausible that the came up with heavy artillery, since they don't have that much cast iron or brass or the casting technology to leapfrog from. They do have the blacksmithing skills to build the flintlocks.

cthia wrote:And what was the reason for Coglin or the courier boat to be needed. Just have a guy on planet looking at his Timex until time to yell charge!


It wasn't enough to generate a slaughter of massive proportions, the PRH plan required a Havenite Fleet to rush to the rescue and claim the system for Haven on the grounds that Manticore was proven incapable of protecting off-worlders or indigenes.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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