Talbott Quadrant government and parliament...

SWM wrote:I hesitate to say this, because I hate to rain on other people's parade. But the ribald commentary is getting a bit extreme. I would like to politely point out Rule 1 on the Forum Rules And Information. Could people please try to keep it to PG-13 as much as possible? I'm not saying it has to be G, but it's getting a bit much.

I would respectfully concur, folks. I'm happy people feel comfortable enough to let their hair down, but we do try to keep it within bounds.

Thanks.

SWM wrote:I hesitate to say this, because I hate to rain on other people's parade. But the ribald commentary is getting a bit extreme. I would like to politely point out Rule 1 on the Forum Rules And Information. Could people please try to keep it to PG-13 as much as possible? I'm not saying it has to be G, but it's getting a bit much.

Alas, I am in the midst of traveling for a cousin's wedding and missed this, but would like to add my concurrence.

Duckk wrote:

SWM wrote:I hesitate to say this, because I hate to rain on other people's parade. But the ribald commentary is getting a bit extreme. I would like to politely point out Rule 1 on the Forum Rules And Information. Could people please try to keep it to PG-13 as much as possible? I'm not saying it has to be G, but it's getting a bit much.

Alas, I am in the midst of traveling for a cousin's wedding and missed this, but would like to add my concurrence.

I apologize and shall comply with your instructions.

SWM wrote: The way I interpreted it is that there is an Imperial tax, which applies to anyone who wishes to vote in imperial elections. This is paid directly to the Imperial government. The Talbott Quadrant has no control over that, cannot limit who pays it, and does not even touch the money. Over and above that, the Talbott Quadrant government is responsible for contributing some amount of money to the Imperial government, as determined by the Imperial Parliament. How Talbott raises that is up to them, but they can't call it Imperial taxes because they have no authority to create, gather, or control Imperial taxes.

I dunno. This--

runsforcelery wrote: That is, if the Old Star Kingdom represents 75% of the total IGP (Imperial Gross Product), then the Old Star Kingdom will be responsible for funding 75% of the imperial budget. Precisely how the Old Star Kingdom goes about raising those revenues is an internal matter for the Old Star Kingdom to arrange as it chooses, with the understanding that any citizen who does not pay imperial taxes does not have the imperial franchise. [emph added]

seems to imply that there isn't an Imperial tax on people, just an Imperial levy on the OSK and TQ governments. The simplest thing would be for those governments to have one tax that raises enough for the imperial and provincial governments, but it seems like a provincial government could have, say, a sales tax earmarked for one and an income tax earmarked for the other.

Who owns the junction these days? It and its termini are entirely within the OSK, but as the major source of revenue in the SEM, maybe when the Mantie government was split into Kingdom and Empire, the title went with the latter?

Bill Woods wrote:

SWM wrote: The way I interpreted it is that there is an Imperial tax, which applies to anyone who wishes to vote in imperial elections. This is paid directly to the Imperial government. The Talbott Quadrant has no control over that, cannot limit who pays it, and does not even touch the money. Over and above that, the Talbott Quadrant government is responsible for contributing some amount of money to the Imperial government, as determined by the Imperial Parliament. How Talbott raises that is up to them, but they can't call it Imperial taxes because they have no authority to create, gather, or control Imperial taxes.

I dunno. This--

runsforcelery wrote: That is, if the Old Star Kingdom represents 75% of the total IGP (Imperial Gross Product), then the Old Star Kingdom will be responsible for funding 75% of the imperial budget. Precisely how the Old Star Kingdom goes about raising those revenues is an internal matter for the Old Star Kingdom to arrange as it chooses, with the understanding that any citizen who does not pay imperial taxes does not have the imperial franchise. [emph added]

seems to imply that there isn't an Imperial tax on people, just an Imperial levy on the OSK and TQ governments. The simplest thing would be for those governments to have one tax that raises enough for the imperial and provincial governments, but it seems like a provincial government could have, say, a sales tax earmarked for one and an income tax earmarked for the other.

Who owns the junction these days? It and its termini are entirely within the OSK, but as the major source of revenue in the SEM, maybe when the Mantie government was split into Kingdom and Empire, the title went with the latter?

Nope.

hanuman wrote:It was a very small step for the Nazis to go from saying that Jews should not participate in German society and German politics to saying that they (the Nazis) had to take steps to ensure that the Jews didn't.

The huge difference between that and what I said, which you continue to ignore, is that I am not picking a particular group of people based on ethnicity, gender, economic strata, etc., and refusing to allow them to participate. I am saying that if someone has decided for himself that he should not participate, that forcing him to participate is very, very bad. I'm defending people's freedoms, and somehow that's being equated with stripping them of basic human rights by force.

I mean, let's get real here, shall we? People who do not vote are ALREADY not participating in the political process - why bother to say that they shouldn't participate, hmm?

I didn't just out of the blue say "you know, people who don't want to vote shouldn't vote." I responded to you saying that forcing them to participate is a good thing. And you have the cojones to say the above. Mind=boggled.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to participate. I'm saying they shouldn't participate against their will, only because of the threat they'll be fined and/or imprisoned, be taken away from living their lives as they choose to for legal proceedings, etc. And somehow that's twisted around into "that's the same reasoning used by racist, sexist, elitist bastards" when it is 180 degrees in opposition to those bastards. The worst part is where my reasoning was alleged to have anything at all in common with the defenders of the institution of slavery, when I advocate its antithesis. Forcing someone to do something he doesn't want to do is pretty much the cornerstone of slavery.


"People who don't want to be parents shouldn't be parents."
"People who don't want to drive shouldn't drive."
"People who don't want to vote shouldn't eat vote."
"People who don't want to eat pork shouldn't eat pork."
"People who don't want to consume alcohol shouldn't..."

The above statements do not coerce anyone into or out of performing any of the aforementioned actions. They merely state what ought to be universally accepted, which is that no one needs permission to choose not to do something (unless they've previously accepted a contractual obligation to do it). Forcing someone to do anything against their will is immoral and stupid. People do things they want to do much better than the things they don't want to do. They have the desire to do the hard work of being good. Making them do it means they'll do a crappy job of it.


I developed that idea at a great deal more length here.

Oh, come on, everyone knows that people need protein and that people who only eat plants sometimes have a hard time with that, so let's make eating tasty animals mandatory and imprison vegetarians. After all, it's for the children. And nobody can argue with that!

kzt wrote:Oh, come on, everyone knows that people need protein and that people who only eat plants sometimes have a hard time with that, so let's make eating tasty animals mandatory and imprison vegetarians. After all, it's for the children. And nobody can argue with that!

lol... lets start a political party with our new enlightened policies!

SWM wrote: The way I interpreted it is that there is an Imperial tax, which applies to anyone who wishes to vote in imperial elections. This is paid directly to the Imperial government. The Talbott Quadrant has no control over that, cannot limit who pays it, and does not even touch the money. Over and above that, the Talbott Quadrant government is responsible for contributing some amount of money to the Imperial government, as determined by the Imperial Parliament. How Talbott raises that is up to them, but they can't call it Imperial taxes because they have no authority to create, gather, or control Imperial taxes.

Bill Woods wrote: I dunno. This--

runsforcelery wrote: That is, if the Old Star Kingdom represents 75% of the total IGP (Imperial Gross Product), then the Old Star Kingdom will be responsible for funding 75% of the imperial budget. Precisely how the Old Star Kingdom goes about raising those revenues is an internal matter for the Old Star Kingdom to arrange as it chooses, with the understanding that any citizen who does not pay imperial taxes does not have the imperial franchise. [emph added]

seems to imply that there isn't an Imperial tax on people, just an Imperial levy on the OSK and TQ governments. The simplest thing would be for those governments to have one tax that raises enough for the imperial and provincial governments, but it seems like a provincial government could have, say, a sales tax earmarked for one and an income tax earmarked for the other.

Who owns the junction these days? It and its termini are entirely within the OSK, but as the major source of revenue in the SEM, maybe when the Mantie government was split into Kingdom and Empire, the title went with the latter?

runsforcelery wrote: Nope.

Delphic.

'Nope', (at least) one person doesn't understand the imperial tax law? Or,
'Nope', the junction is still owned by Queen Liz, rather than Empress Liz?

Bill Woods wrote: I dunno. This--

runsforcelery wrote: That is, if the Old Star Kingdom represents 75% of the total IGP (Imperial Gross Product), then the Old Star Kingdom will be responsible for funding 75% of the imperial budget. Precisely how the Old Star Kingdom goes about raising those revenues is an internal matter for the Old Star Kingdom to arrange as it chooses, with the understanding that any citizen who does not pay imperial taxes does not have the imperial franchise. [emph added]

seems to imply that there isn't an Imperial tax on people, just an Imperial levy on the OSK and TQ governments. The simplest thing would be for those governments to have one tax that raises enough for the imperial and provincial governments, but it seems like a provincial government could have, say, a sales tax earmarked for one and an income tax earmarked for the other.

Who owns the junction these days? It and its termini are entirely within the OSK, but as the major source of revenue in the SEM, maybe when the Mantie government was split into Kingdom and Empire, the title went with the latter?

runsforcelery wrote: Nope.

Delphic.

'Nope', (at least) one person doesn't understand the imperial tax law? Or,
'Nope', the junction is still owned by Queen Liz, rather than Empress Liz?[/quote]

Yep. :-p