The "Good" Peeps

roseandheather wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:SNIP

The fact that she and Javier Giscard already knew one another before the coup had a lot to do with her request for service as a people's commissioner in the Navy in the first place.

SNIP

...okay, I have a lot of Thoughts about this post, most of which haven't coalesced yet (except, of course, for my ongoing desire to kiss Eloise Pritchart stupid), but I'm going to jump on this snippet like a treecat on a chipmunk.

Javier and Eloise knew each other before the Pierre coup??

Now, I've read every passage where Javier and Eloise appear together multiple times, most of them to the point of having them near-memorised, and I distinctly recall Javier not trusting Eloise one whit when she was first assigned to him. I've always assumed that they'd never met before she was assigned as his commissioner.

So.

Did he not know that Eloise Pritchart, Political Commissioner, and "Brigade Commander Delta of the Aprilists" were one and the same person?

Did he know her, but not know her, and therefore assume that she'd truly been co-opted by StateSec? (Which would, of course, have only made sense if this were the case.)

Did she deliberately maneuver herself to get specifically assigned to Giscard? (Because I wouldn't put it past her.) And if she did, was she already falling in love with him, or did that only come after they'd served together?

What was their relationship prior to their first deployment, if they had one beyond "yeah, I know that name"?

Was Giscard, who was obviously the love of her life, also the only man she'll ever love, or could she potentially fall in love again, the way Honor did after Paul?

And is RFC going to ho-hum me because the answers to this will be found in future books/short stories, assuming he answers me at all? (Hi, Your Celeryness! )

THIS FANGIRL NEEDS ANSWERS.

Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

They knew each other through a third party who shall remain nameless at this time. Eloise was not in the habit of saying "Hey! I'm Brigade Commander Delta!" before the coup, for obvious reasons; she was "outed" when the rest of the Aprilist command --- against her advice --- came out into the open. She knew that Javier was a skilled, dedicated, and decent officer, just as she knew the officer corps was going to be purged and suspected that "collective responsibility" was on its way. She had to start her job as people's commissioner somewhere; she requested him so she could keep an eye on and protect someone she respected but did not know well. He distrusted her precisely because she had duped Saint-Just into regarding her as his fair-haired girl and most imposing trophy. Javier was smart, and if she really had signed on which Saint-Just (which was what all the evidence suspected; hence she was still alive), then he knew damned well that "Brigade Commander Delta" (whatever her rep with the resistance pre-coup) had either been an unscrupulous opportunist from the beginning (and simply hidden it better than Cordelia Ransome) or else had sold out when she was offered the chance by Saint-Just. She understood exactly why he felt that way, and she approached him very gradually and cautiously, not because she expected them to become lovers but because a major part of her purpose from the beginning had been to keep him (and others like him) alive.

That help?

Now I've gotta go cook!

runsforcelery wrote:

roseandheather wrote:...okay, I have a lot of Thoughts about this post, most of which haven't coalesced yet (except, of course, for my ongoing desire to kiss Eloise Pritchart stupid), but I'm going to jump on this snippet like a treecat on a chipmunk.

Javier and Eloise knew each other before the Pierre coup??

Now, I've read every passage where Javier and Eloise appear together multiple times, most of them to the point of having them near-memorised, and I distinctly recall Javier not trusting Eloise one whit when she was first assigned to him. I've always assumed that they'd never met before she was assigned as his commissioner.

So.

Did he not know that Eloise Pritchart, Political Commissioner, and "Brigade Commander Delta of the Aprilists" were one and the same person?

Did he know her, but not know her, and therefore assume that she'd truly been co-opted by StateSec? (Which would, of course, have only made sense if this were the case.)

Did she deliberately maneuver herself to get specifically assigned to Giscard? (Because I wouldn't put it past her.) And if she did, was she already falling in love with him, or did that only come after they'd served together?

What was their relationship prior to their first deployment, if they had one beyond "yeah, I know that name"?

Was Giscard, who was obviously the love of her life, also the only man she'll ever love, or could she potentially fall in love again, the way Honor did after Paul?

And is RFC going to ho-hum me because the answers to this will be found in future books/short stories, assuming he answers me at all? (Hi, Your Celeryness! )

THIS FANGIRL NEEDS ANSWERS.

Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

They knew each other through a third party who shall remain nameless at this time. Eloise was not in the habit of saying "Hey! I'm Brigade Commander Delta!" before the coup, for obvious reasons; she was "outed" when the rest of the Aprilist command --- against her advice --- came out into the open. She knew that Javier was a skilled, dedicated, and decent officer, just as she knew the officer corps was going to be purged and suspected that "collective responsibility" was on its way. She had to start her job as people's commissioner somewhere; she requested him so she could keep an eye on and protect someone she respected but did not know well. He distrusted her precisely because she had duped Saint-Just into regarding her as his fair-haired girl and most imposing trophy. Javier was smart, and if she really had signed on which Saint-Just (which was what all the evidence suspected; hence she was still alive), then he knew damned well that "Brigade Commander Delta" (whatever her rep with the resistance pre-coup) had either been an unscrupulous opportunist from the beginning (and simply hidden it better than Cordelia Ransome) or else had sold out when she was offered the chance by Saint-Just. She understood exactly why he felt that way, and she approached him very gradually and cautiously, not because she expected them to become lovers but because a major part of her purpose from the beginning had been to keep him (and others like him) alive.

That help?

Now I've gotta go cook!

*bookmarks post quicker than Honor with a rifle*

...you have no idea how much that helps.

I would also like to point out that I am well aware of which questions you didn't answer. But then, that's authorial privilege.

...and now I have to go drown myself in Javier/Eloise feelings, because Javier/Eloise!

After WW 2, there were plans to try the German UBoat admirals for violating the laws of war. Those were canceled only when all the US Pacific admirals let it be known that they would appear as defense witnesses and testify that they had waged submarine warfare in the same unrestricted manner. And that was the only way one could use submarines effectively.

Commerce raiding in an environment where prizes cannot be taken has its own deadly logic. Which does not mean that you don't make a lot of enemies doing it.

pablopinzone wrote:I did not mean to hijack the thread, pun intended.
To some degree I have to agree with the OP. My problem with the current PEEP's is not just that the did bad things but that they are completely unapologetic about it. What really stick in my craw though is that no one in the SEM leadership seems willing to hold them accountable. Take the attack on the civilian convoy where Helen Zilwicki died. One of the current Haven leaders, I think Tom Theisman, was XO on the Peep side and did feel that it might not have been justified. He went along since that is what the boss ordered. My favorite 'scene we will never see' is Ensign Helen Zilwicki meeting Theisman knowing his role and having the gumption to say 'I am supposed to shake the hand of the man who killed my mother?'.

Dr. Arroway wrote:The example doesn't really counter my argument as it doesn't take the "Original Sin" into account.
Of course several difficult, ambiguous situations arise during the war, which force painful decisions to serving officers, including Honor.
But the point is, it was the Peeps who wanted the war in the first place, with everything that it was going to produce, so the final death toll ultimately rests on their heads.

Pritchart wanted peace. Theisman wanted peace. They felt they didn´t get a whole lot of choice in the matter.

"Original sin" is merely an excuse here.

And consider just how far Pritchart really did go to try towards a better future.

isaac_newton wrote:On Eloise - well I'd just point out that she was a highly regarded [by St Just] & feared State Sec commissioner. Given the competition amongst that group, that seems to suggest that she must have willingly purged many navel people and their entire families, and probably many other innocents in the general population, committing them to pain, grief and death.

"must have"? We don´t know either way.

But i suggest you read how she acts while Giscard´s watchdog. I very much doubt that she is the sort to kill just because she could have.

Even as a hardcore terrorist she was "accurate". IIRC that´s one reason she was respected.

runsforcelery wrote:Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

-=SNIP=-

That was brief!
RFC has just proven he can post less than 500 words!
In fact, that was barely over 280!
If we can get him to keep his posts short, that will hopefully mean that he can spend more time writing the books needed to feed our insatiable literary appetites.

Thanks, RFC!

Michael Everett wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

-=SNIP=-

That was brief!
RFC has just proven he can post less than 500 words!
In fact, that was barely over 280!
If we can get him to keep his posts short, that will hopefully mean that he can spend more time writing the books needed to feed our insatiable literary appetites.

Thanks, RFC!

Of course it would be the one post I was hoping would hit at least 1k words. Of course it would be.

*pout*

*lip wobble*



...on the other hand, given that I turn into a waterfall every time I think about Javier for too long, it's probably safer that way...

Michael Everett wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

-=SNIP=-

That was brief!
RFC has just proven he can post less than 500 words!
In fact, that was barely over 280!
If we can get him to keep his posts short, that will hopefully mean that he can spend more time writing the books needed to feed our insatiable literary appetites.

Thanks, RFC!

That's

Michael Everett wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

-=SNIP=-

That was brief!
RFC has just proven he can post less than 500 words!
In fact, that was barely over 280!
If we can get him to keep his posts short, that will hopefully mean that he can spend more time writing the books needed to feed our insatiable literary appetites.

Thanks, RFC!

silly,

Michael Everett wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Don't know if it'll be in a future book or not and I am now late for supper, so this will be VERY brief.

-=SNIP=-

That was brief!
RFC has just proven he can post less than 500 words!
In fact, that was barely over 280!
If we can get him to keep his posts short, that will hopefully mean that he can spend more time writing the books needed to feed our insatiable literary appetites.

Thanks, RFC!

Michael.

runsforcelery wrote:...snip...

Michael.

Why do I get the impression someone is trying to qualify for Prime Minister.



Thanks for the laugh,
T2M