Information I'd love to know

lyonheart wrote:Hi RoseandHeather,

Sorry to rain on the parade, but Estelle Knows lots of very good naval officers, besides Honor in OBS before Kumalo reclaimed his soul.

Given prolong, NTM the fact she was Home secretary before she was sent to the Talbot Cluster, she knows plenty of very good naval officers that Kumalo didn't measure up to, such as Terekhov, which is why she liked him so much and immediately by comparison.

I'm sure she had studied Terekhov's personnel record quite carefully, before she saw him at the reception, which probably included some personal notes from friends over her long career recommending him from both the Foreign Office and the Navy.

Do you recall her remark at the reception in Spindle from SoS [chapter 12] where she mentions one of her nieces is a captain at BuShips?

I suspect her family has a rather long and large naval tradition, which is probably another reason why she didn't like Young or Kumalo since they were both Conservative Association members, and she such a strong Centrist.

L

Rose's analysis of Dame Estelle's initial attitude towards Khumalo is pretty much spot on. She does somewhat overestimate the Baroness' attitudes towards naval officers in general, but the fact that Estelle has a niece in BuShips fifteen or twenty years after meeting Honor doesn't necessarily mean that she's known "plenty" of good officers. I will concede that by this point in her career she's known a lot more good officers than bad officers, however. On the other hand, Khumalo was a political appointee to a naval station clearly regarded as of minor and secondary importance by the same Admiralty which had sent Pavel Young to Basilisk. I think it is, therefore, fair to suggest that her initial reaction to him most definitely was affected by her view of "political naval officers" and of the disastrous consequences of command appointments made on the basis of factional political policy. She'd been there, done that, and she had the T-shirt.

She hadn't studied Terekhov's record any more closely than she'd studied the records of any other naval officers assigned to the Talbott Quadrant, particularly since she didn't know he was coming ahead of time. On the other hand, Terekhov was well known in naval circles because of his actions at Hyacinth, and if you will recall, he had quite a successful Foreign Office career before returning to active duty after the outbreak of the actual shooting war. During that time, he and Dame Estelle had been working in the same field for the same superiors.

Rose's analysis of Khumalo's perception of himself — and the perceptions of him held by others — is pretty darned accurate, as is the moment at which others realize (even before he did) that he'd "found his moment." The fact that he was a distant relative of the Queen, that his membership in the Conservative Association made him (somewhat unquestioningly) acceptable to High Ridge and Janacek, and that the Talbott Sector was generally regarded as a place which required a competent administrator but not necessarily a competent military commander had, indeed, been the primary reasons for his appointment to Talbott in the first place. Of course, as Michael Oversteegen demonstrates, the Conservative Association has its own . . . political gradients within its membership, and Janacek and High Ridge would have been quite surprised if they'd discovered exactly what Augustus Khumalo's view of their policies truly was even prior to Monica.

cthia wrote:

kzt wrote:Secretary of the Treasury in the US.

But the Secretary of the Treasury doesn't have anything to do with the naval budget does he?

The U.S. Secretary of the Treasury would be involved distantly with the naval budget in his role as senior financial advisor to the President and the Administration. At some astronomically high level, as master of the revenues and monetary balance of the country, he would have input on the OVERALL budget and major components on the question of "Can we afford it?"

The Department of the Treasury no longer directly oversees the formulation of the annual and projected federal budget itself, or the issuance of financial targets to the various departments. That is the province of the Office of Management and Budget, an operating agency of the Executive Office of the President. The precursor to the OMB was transferred from DoT to the White House in the 1970s.

dreamrider

cthia wrote:

The Lord of the Exchequer, also known as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was a senior member of the Royal Council, in charge of the financial affairs of the Star Kingdom of Manticore.

The Naval Budget Estimate was one of the larger concerns for this office. In 1900 PD, the current Lord of the Exchequer was William Alexander. (HH1, HH3)

Is there a present day equivalent of this? Perhaps Chief of Naval Operations, or Secretary of the Navy?

The annual and forecast budget preparation would fall more to the Office of the Sec Nav, with the CNO heavily involved.

Theoretically, however, CNO involvement is to fill in the blank preceding the statement," $_____ This is what I need to keep the Navy in condition to conduct the missions we expect the President to hand us, and to conduct current missions." (S/he is, after all, the Chief of Naval Operations.)

Then the Sec Nav gets to oversee the horse trading and guard the ricebowl.

dreamrider

dreamrider wrote:Then the Sec Nav gets to oversee the horse trading and guard the ricebowl.

defending our cut Kungfu Panda Style

Yow wrote:

dreamrider wrote:Then the Sec Nav gets to oversee the horse trading and guard the ricebowl.

defending our cut Kungfu Panda Style

The way I see it, this makes Sec Nav at least as much of a combat position as one of the Fleet COs.


dreamrider

PS - In Kung-fu Panda style, that would be "guarding the noodle bowl".

runsforcelery wrote:Rose's analysis of Dame Estelle's initial attitude towards Khumalo is pretty much spot on. She does somewhat overestimate the Baroness' attitudes towards naval officers in general, but the fact that Estelle has a niece in BuShips fifteen or twenty years after meeting Honor doesn't necessarily mean that she's known "plenty" of good officers. I will concede that by this point in her career she's known a lot more good officers than bad officers, however. On the other hand, Khumalo was a political appointee to a naval station clearly regarded as of minor and secondary importance by the same Admiralty which had sent Pavel Young to Basilisk. I think it is, therefore, fair to suggest that her initial reaction to him most definitely was affected by her view of "political naval officers" and of the disastrous consequences of command appointments made on the basis of factional political policy. She'd been there, done that, and she had the T-shirt.

She hadn't studied Terekhov's record any more closely than she'd studied the records of any other naval officers assigned to the Talbott Quadrant, particularly since she didn't know he was coming ahead of time. On the other hand, Terekhov was well known in naval circles because of his actions at Hyacinth, and if you will recall, he had quite a successful Foreign Office career before returning to active duty after the outbreak of the actual shooting war. During that time, he and Dame Estelle had been working in the same field for the same superiors.

Rose's analysis of Khumalo's perception of himself — and the perceptions of him held by others — is pretty darned accurate, as is the moment at which others realize (even before he did) that he'd "found his moment." The fact that he was a distant relative of the Queen, that his membership in the Conservative Association made him (somewhat unquestioningly) acceptable to High Ridge and Janacek, and that the Talbott Sector was generally regarded as a place which required a competent administrator but not necessarily a competent military commander had, indeed, been the primary reasons for his appointment to Talbott in the first place. Of course, as Michael Oversteegen demonstrates, the Conservative Association has its own . . . political gradients within its membership, and Janacek and High Ridge would have been quite surprised if they'd discovered exactly what Augustus Khumalo's view of their policies truly was even prior to Monica.

...that sound you just heard was me hitting the floor in a dead faint.

*grabs nearest stuffed animal, squeals into its fur and makes joyful squeaking noises whilst kicking feet like an excited three-year-old*

kzt wrote:Secretary of the Treasury in the US.

Not really.

There is no position in the US government comparable to "Chancellor of the Exchequer" which is a position in a "Parliamentary Government" such as Manticore's.

Perhaps an examination the English/UK cabinet responsibilities might shed some light on a closer comparison?

roseandheather wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Rose's analysis of Dame Estelle's initial attitude towards Khumalo is pretty much spot on. She does somewhat overestimate the Baroness' attitudes towards naval officers in general, but the fact that Estelle has a niece in BuShips fifteen or twenty years after meeting Honor doesn't necessarily mean that she's known "plenty" of good officers. I will concede that by this point in her career she's known a lot more good officers than bad officers, however. On the other hand, Khumalo was a political appointee to a naval station clearly regarded as of minor and secondary importance by the same Admiralty which had sent Pavel Young to Basilisk. I think it is, therefore, fair to suggest that her initial reaction to him most definitely was affected by her view of "political naval officers" and of the disastrous consequences of command appointments made on the basis of factional political policy. She'd been there, done that, and she had the T-shirt.

She hadn't studied Terekhov's record any more closely than she'd studied the records of any other naval officers assigned to the Talbott Quadrant, particularly since she didn't know he was coming ahead of time. On the other hand, Terekhov was well known in naval circles because of his actions at Hyacinth, and if you will recall, he had quite a successful Foreign Office career before returning to active duty after the outbreak of the actual shooting war. During that time, he and Dame Estelle had been working in the same field for the same superiors.

Rose's analysis of Khumalo's perception of himself — and the perceptions of him held by others — is pretty darned accurate, as is the moment at which others realize (even before he did) that he'd "found his moment." The fact that he was a distant relative of the Queen, that his membership in the Conservative Association made him (somewhat unquestioningly) acceptable to High Ridge and Janacek, and that the Talbott Sector was generally regarded as a place which required a competent administrator but not necessarily a competent military commander had, indeed, been the primary reasons for his appointment to Talbott in the first place. Of course, as Michael Oversteegen demonstrates, the Conservative Association has its own . . . political gradients within its membership, and Janacek and High Ridge would have been quite surprised if they'd discovered exactly what Augustus Khumalo's view of their policies truly was even prior to Monica.

...that sound you just heard was me hitting the floor in a dead faint.

*grabs nearest stuffed animal, squeals into its fur and makes joyful squeaking noises whilst kicking feet like an excited three-year-old*

Hey now. Wait just a minute here. You mean you're not actually a spoiled three year old?

KNick wrote:Hey now. Wait just a minute here. You mean you're not actually a spoiled three year old?

Yes, KNick. Yes. You've caught me. In my three short years on Earth I have managed to read the entire Honorverse and developed enough cognitive ability to critically analyze the relationships between different characters as well as the political dynamics of various fictional multi-star-system nations.

Also, I know what sex is.

Oh darn! I have been found out!



(In all seriousness, yes, being told by the author of a book series I desperately love that my analysis of two characters and their relationship which I also desperately love is pretty much bang on was, in fact, enough to bring out my inner excited three-year-old. Can you blame a girl?? )

roseandheather wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:
Rose's analysis of Dame Estelle's initial attitude towards Khumalo is pretty much spot on. She does somewhat overestimate the Baroness' attitudes towards naval officers in general, but the fact that Estelle has a niece in BuShips fifteen or twenty years after meeting Honor doesn't necessarily mean that she's known "plenty" of good officers. I will concede that by this point in her career she's known a lot more good officers than bad officers, however. On the other hand, Khumalo was a political appointee to a naval station clearly regarded as of minor and secondary importance by the same Admiralty which had sent Pavel Young to Basilisk. I think it is, therefore, fair to suggest that her initial reaction to him most definitely was affected by her view of "political naval officers" and of the disastrous consequences of command appointments made on the basis of factional political policy. She'd been there, done that, and she had the T-shirt.

She hadn't studied Terekhov's record any more closely than she'd studied the records of any other naval officers assigned to the Talbott Quadrant, particularly since she didn't know he was coming ahead of time. On the other hand, Terekhov was well known in naval circles because of his actions at Hyacinth, and if you will recall, he had quite a successful Foreign Office career before returning to active duty after the outbreak of the actual shooting war. During that time, he and Dame Estelle had been working in the same field for the same superiors.

Rose's analysis of Khumalo's perception of himself — and the perceptions of him held by others — is pretty darned accurate, as is the moment at which others realize (even before he did) that he'd "found his moment." The fact that he was a distant relative of the Queen, that his membership in the Conservative Association made him (somewhat unquestioningly) acceptable to High Ridge and Janacek, and that the Talbott Sector was generally regarded as a place which required a competent administrator but not necessarily a competent military commander had, indeed, been the primary reasons for his appointment to Talbott in the first place. Of course, as Michael Oversteegen demonstrates, the Conservative Association has its own . . . political gradients within its membership, and Janacek and High Ridge would have been quite surprised if they'd discovered exactly what Augustus Khumalo's view of their policies truly was even prior to Monica.

...that sound you just heard was me hitting the floor in a dead faint.

*grabs nearest stuffed animal, squeals into its fur and makes joyful squeaking noises whilst kicking feet like an excited three-year-old*

KNick wrote:
Hey now. Wait just a minute here. You mean you're not actually a spoiled three year old?

Aww, KNick is just joshing. He's actually happy for you, as we all are. That was such a bang up analysis. I can't say it enough. And since I asked the question ... I feel special too.

Remember the old shake-n-bake commercial? "And I helped."

http://youtu.be/bB7j3sUWohE